" Hypnotherapy Is The Use Of Words To Orientate Us Towards What We Want. There's A Lot of Power In The Words", with Christy Cowgill, on Hypnotherapy, The Power of Words, and Responsibility.

Zhou Fang: [00:00:00] All right, looks like we are recording. Uh, hello everyone. Welcome to The Intersection, a podcast program about intersectionality, uh, intersection, intersectional identities, and intersectional journeys. And as we know, every journey comes with a story, and behind every story there's a person, um, sharing it or telling it.

And today we have a, like a new friend, I think, um, who I met through a, a mutual friend, Cam. Um, and, uh, her name is Chris- Christie Cowgill, and Christie is a nurse practitioner, uh, focuses on psychiatry as well as anesthesiology, and she's also the founder of, uh, Entering to Calm, which is really appealing to me.

You know, we all want that calm into our life these days. [00:01:00] So I got very curious, and Christie and I chatted a little bit earlier, and today I'm very excited to have Christie to be on the program and tell us a little bit more about her practice as well as the Calm Collective Care. Um, so I would love to invite Christie to introduce herself.

Welcome, Christie.

Christina Cowgill: Thank you, Jo. It's so nice to be here on this podcast and having another conversation with you, my friend.

Zhou Fang: Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Um, so I know I just mentioned, you know, a couple of titles of yours, but can you in your own words tell us who you are?

Christina Cowgill: Sure, sure. Well, I guess you, you introduced me with my credentials, so I'll start there.

Mm-hmm. So, um, my career path has led me into the field of advanced practice nursing, and I started as a nurse anesthetist, so that is a advanced practice nurse who studies anesthesia. Mm. And I did [00:02:00] anesthesia, meaning working in operating rooms, helping people drift off to sleep for surgery and waking them up after their surgeries, and I was in that practice for 20 years.

And, uh, then I got the itch to, uh, go back and study mental health psychiatry, so I currently also practice in that field. Um, yeah. And somewhere along the way, I started my own business, like you mentioned, which is Enter into Calm, which is, um, uh, it is trying to introduce some more skills instead of pills for people to, um-

Zhou Fang: Mm

Christina Cowgill: fi- finding those skills of, of meditation and motivational coaching to really enhance people's life.

Zhou Fang: Yeah. Mm. That's wonderful. So it sounds like you have a job and then you have your own practice. Yeah. Um, so maybe tell us a little bit more how... What got you interested into mental health, you know, [00:03:00] um, and specifically, uh, about being calm and entering to the space of calm?

Christina Cowgill: Sure. Sure. Um, well, because I would meet people oftentimes on the most stressful day of their life or one of the most stressful days, where oftentimes- Mm ... they're faced with, um, having to have surgery or sometimes having a baby, which is also a very stressful time, right? Mm-hmm. And I would call in to be in- intervening with, with them on that particular day.

Um, I found that I had to learn a skill set that would allow me to help somebody shift from anxiety into calm or from- Mm-hmm ... pain, or from pain into comfort. And the quicker that I helped somebody else regulate their state, the easier it was for the both of us to move forward with whatever we needed to do that lied ahead of us.

So that's where I actually, I think, kind of cut my teeth, if you will, on, on that skill set of how to [00:04:00] do that. Uh, obviously, as a healthcare professional, I also had an arsenal of medications and different- Mm ... drugs I could, could use, but- Mm-hmm ... really, when it co- when you, when you first meet somebody, you have to get to know them and go through- Mm

sometimes all the questions that healthcare practitioners need to know about you before we can move forward. Mm. So, uh, I needed to develop a skill set that would allow me to do that, so I studied, um, the field of psychology and hypnotherapy on what did practitioners use to really get to the heart of the matter quickly and help people feel safe and regulated, um, oftentimes when everything else seemed really chaotic.

Zhou Fang: Mm. And you specifically picked, uh, hypnotherapy. I did. Can you tell us more about that? 'Cause I've heard of it. I've never done it, so I'm curious about how it works and why is that interesting to you.

Christina Cowgill: [00:05:00] Yeah. It was interesting to me because I was in residency for anesthesia at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota, and we use medications that are often called, or they're in the class of drugs called hypnotic anesthetics.

So there's the word, kind of hypnosis in the, the drug label, which is the ability for a medication to take the conscious mind, which is the one that's perceiving the pain, and separate it from the body.

Zhou Fang: Hmm.

Christina Cowgill: And I got curious about, well, what did we do before we had these drugs, right? And that's really what led me to, um, s- find that before we had the drugs that we have, like ether anesthetic, or in the 19, uh, 60s and beyond we had Penthol and Propofol.

Zhou Fang: Hmm.

Christina Cowgill: What did we do before that? People were still having surgeries, and I realized that the Mayo brothers actually, um, there was a number of [00:06:00] lecturers that came through when they were opening their hospital in the early 1900s, and some of those lecturers were hypnotherapists- Hmm ... teaching the surgeons, teaching the dentists how to help people get through uncomfortable procedures by using hypnosis.

Hmm. So, um, it really is kind of the lifeblood, if you will, um, of the art of, of anesthesia. Mm-hmm. So my, my, my foresisters, I guess I would say, um, the nurse anesthetist that worked alongside the Mayo brothers, um, were very clever at being able to use their words to help people get through those complicated surgeries.

Mm-hmm. And even in a time where, uh, medicine, people go through surgery and would not make it out the other side alive-

Zhou Fang: Mm-hmm ...

Christina Cowgill: these nurse, nurse anesthetists, in particular Alice Magaw, had documented over [00:07:00] 30,000 abdominal surgeries with the Mayo brothers- Without any deaths at all, right? So I- Yeah ... really wanted to know more.

What was the art? We talk about the art and science of medicine. Mm-hmm. I really wanted to know what was the art behind the science that I was spending so much time learning. Mm-hmm. And that's what I uncovered. Yeah.

Zhou Fang: That's fascinating. Um, yeah, I... So a, a, a couple years ago, I had a couple of surgeries and both of them are, like, uh, general anesthesia, and I definitely was nervous before getting into it.

It wasn't the first time, um, but my very first time of general anesthesia was when I was four, um, in China, and all I remembered was this nurse, um, kind of like carrying me into the operation room, and that was all I could remember. Um, and this time, you know, a couple years ago, um, both times I was really [00:08:00] nervous, but honestly, like, as soon as I'm on the table and they put the IV in me, it's like maybe five seconds, I was out.

Yeah. So I don't know if it was the combination of the medication or, you know, the words that they spoke to me or what. Uh, it was just so quick, and I'm always fascinated by the, the science maybe or the art of, um, how anesthesia works, 'cause you can bring people back just like that, too.

Christina Cowgill: Yeah. Yeah.

Zhou Fang: Yeah. So and but I'm very curious about the hypnotherapy.

Like, to me, it's hard to imagine how can you just use your words and communication to maybe take the pain away from the patient. Mm-hmm. For me, that's very interesting. Can you tell us, just maybe show us a little bit of the, the secret or, or the magic of hypnotherapy?

Christina Cowgill: Yeah. Yeah. So I [00:09:00] think hypnotherapy, obviously there's, uh, what some people would say is the formal hypnotherapy, where there's gonna be a countdown and you're gonna get more and more relaxed, right?

Sleepier and sleepier. And hypnotherapy is just the use of, of words to orientate the, the recipient, or yourself, towards what we want, right? So there's a lot of power in just the words. As you mentioned, um, pain, right? Well, if I want somebody to experience comfort, I would avoid using the word pain. Mm. And I would center them more around, imagine how comfortable you're gonna feel.

You're already probably feeling more comfortable already just listening to my voice, right?

Zhou Fang: Mm.

Christina Cowgill: That's a h- hypnotic language that allows the person to then experience that word and look inside themselves, kind of quickly it happens, at the speed of thought, and just notice I am comfortable. Maybe you're handing them a warm blanket.

Notice how this warm blanket, you can use this to have the [00:10:00] softness against your skin. So what I'm doing is using my language to help them focus more on what they desire, which is more comfort, right? Mm. And so, and just so the listeners know too, I'm not... I didn't go, go through my anesthesia career just offering people hypnosis.

Mm. It would be m- usually oftentimes a combination- Mm ... of, of, you know, like how would I present my words and use the medication simultaneously.

Zhou Fang: Okay.

Christina Cowgill: Um, again, to just invite them to explore that concept within their mind. Although, um- They didn't probably know what I was doing. Gotcha. But it feels very different than like, "Okay, so how is your pain right now?"

Right?

Zhou Fang: Mm-hmm.

Christina Cowgill: You know?

Zhou Fang: Mm-hmm.

Christina Cowgill: How uncomfortable is that feeling in your arm? Just- Yeah ... or for example, you mentioned the IV. Mm-hmm. And this is where if, if there is a listener who's in healthcare or a person who's experienced an IV put in before- Hmm ... oftentimes the [00:11:00] practitioner will say, "Oh, it's a little bee sting."

Zhou Fang: Mm.

Christina Cowgill: Well, I don't know about you, but nobody that I know wants to be stung by a bee. Even if it's a very cute, lovely bee- Mm-hmm ... I don't wanna be stung by it, right?

Zhou Fang: Mm.

Christina Cowgill: Um, so instead maybe, "Okay, you're gonna experience a little pressure here now, a little sensation."

Zhou Fang: Mm.

Christina Cowgill: Right? And instead of a bee sting, which can i- invites the muscle to tense up even- Mm-hmm

you know, it just happens kind of automatically. Like, oh, I don't want a bee to sting me, right? Mm-hmm. So being more hypervigilant, if you will, of the language that I would offer to my clients would make a difference on how high their heart rate would be on the monitor that I was watching. Mm. Right? So if I could go in and orientate my, my language around something that was softer and more comfortable-

Zhou Fang: Mm

Christina Cowgill: I could actually see their heart rate decrease, right?

Zhou Fang: Wow.

Christina Cowgill: And so I would know that my words were medicine and they were re- Mm ... [00:12:00] being received as a way of helping that person orientate into the direction of safety-

Zhou Fang: Mm-hmm ...

Christina Cowgill: and healing. Yeah.

Zhou Fang: Yeah. It almost feels like, um, it's a way of communication. It is.

Almost like, like what, um... Of course, it's psychology as well, but it's like words of comfort, right? Like, you are basically n- n- help people navigate these maybe pain and discomfort and trying to distract people from that discomfort and make them imagine, "Well, actually, I'm not in that much pain," or, "I can relax," for example.

You know, when the IV goes in, I don't have to tense up, but instead I can just let go a little bit. B- 'cause when you relax, it's a lot easier for the IV to go in based- Yeah ... on my own experience. Right. Um, so I think that's actually really cool. It's, um, it's about communications. It's also about how to deescalate.

Mm. 'Cause patients, oftentimes they're nervous. They [00:13:00] don't know what they're getting into. Again, speaking from personal experience, is, you know, as a practitioner, if you can use your words as well as body language to help patients relax, then their experience may not be as painful.

Christina Cowgill: Exactly. Gives them a little bit of their own power back, you know?

Mm-hmm. And I love, I love that you called it a communication tool, 'cause that's what I'll often say is, yeah, we have a notion of what we think hypnosis is, but at the end of the day, I'm using, um, eh, I'm using hypnosis as a communication tool with, with people, you know? Mm, mm. And, and I also teach practitioners how to use that same communication tool, you know?

Zhou Fang: Mm.

Christina Cowgill: How can we be more thoughtful of it as- Yeah ...

Zhou Fang: as

Christina Cowgill: a whole, right?

Zhou Fang: Yeah. Um, yeah, appreciate that a lot. Um, I don't think most people can connect hypnosis to communications. Just, I mean, from medical perspective, like, why would you consider that [00:14:00] as communication is medicine? But I feel a lot of, yeah, a lot of times we don't really make the connection, like medicine practice is actually about how do we communicate with the patients or your clients.

Mm-hmm. Uh, like the language we use. Um, but I would love for you to maybe, um, bring us to your practice, um, entering to calm. Uh, to me that's related to your, uh, nurse practice, of course. Um, at the same time, I feel that's, like, a lot more than that because you w- you actually work with nurse practitioners and help them regulate.

Christina Cowgill: Mm-hmm.

Zhou Fang: And that's your Calm Collective. So maybe tell us a little bit more about... 'Cause that's, I feel, is, like, big step forward, right? It's like-

Christina Cowgill: Yeah ...

Zhou Fang: stepping out of your own practice, and then you are bringing that calm practice to nurse practitioners, who I [00:15:00] know are very stressed out these days.

Christina Cowgill: Yeah, yeah.

Right?

Zhou Fang: Yeah.

Christina Cowgill: Healthcare practitioners are very stressed out, and it's, we thought it was just the pandemic, but what, what the data's showing is that we haven't, uh, as a whole, gone back down to baseline, whatever that is. But, um- Mm-hmm ... so i- initially when I started Entering a Calm as, as a hypnotherapist, um, my goal was to help people with more holistic tools around pain management.

Chronic pain management, for example. That was my specialty. And what I found is that the tools that I would use there were definitely relatable to people, whether they were just feeling burnt out, stressed out- Mm ... overwhelmed. So of course, it, it became that I was starting to see more and more nurses, nurse practitioners, and physicians who would be like, "Hey, you have something that I don't feel like I have.

Tell me what you have," right? Give me some, uh, insight into how it, how you can maintain [00:16:00] a healthy healthcare practice and feel okay about it. So I started to teach more people what do I do for self-hypnosis.

Zhou Fang: Mm-hmm.

Christina Cowgill: How do I use those language? And it became, uh, what I, what I call is hypnosis for nurses. So I started to train nurses in the art of hypnotherapy, and they were certified.

Um, I'm a certified instructor with the National Guild of Hypnotists. So a nurse could come along and take that, uh, training with me. So, uh, the Calm Collective is actually- Hmm ... a group of nurses. Um, I would say they're hypnotists first and nurses second.

Zhou Fang: Oh.

Christina Cowgill: But they work all across the United States and into Canada with, uh, with, um, their own, uh, colleagues, some of them, and also with the public.

So we offer-

Zhou Fang: Oh, interesting. Yeah ...

Christina Cowgill: that. Yeah, so we offer hypnosis for, um, for the public and for other nurses. [00:17:00] Yeah.

Zhou Fang: That's really cool. Do you know how many, like roughly, nurse practitioners you've worked with in the collective so far?

Christina Cowgill: Yeah. So I have, um, I have trained 42 nurses in hypnotherapy in the past three years.

And, uh, then, uh, eight of them have decided to come and are the collective. So those eight practitioners, um, are still working in healthcare, just like myself. Mm-hmm. And we do hypnosis, um, and offer hypnotherapy on the side as well. Yeah.

Zhou Fang: That's so cool. Um-

Christina Cowgill: Yeah ...

Zhou Fang: and when you offer hypnotherapy- Uh-huh ... is that always in person, or it can be virtual?

Christina Cowgill: It can be in person or virtual. So during the pandemic was when, you know, I think we saw healthcare in general kind of shift quite a bit. Mm-hmm. And it was during that time [00:18:00] that the National Guild of Hypnotists decided, "You know what? Since we're all locked down, let's go ahead and try hypnosis as a virtual model."

Zhou Fang: Mm.

Christina Cowgill: And what we found is that people, when we're offering hypnotherapy across the virtual platform, they're in their own space. Mm. They can relax even a little bit deeper. And we're working with nervous system regulation and trying to help, help people feel safety again. Mm-hmm. So as long as we have a good connection, that hypnosis is still received, whether we're in the same room or whether we're across the virtual platform.

So it, um... I think it's just enhanced our ability to reach more people. Yeah. People don't have to try to make their way into the office all the time. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Although I do love seeing people in my office- Yeah ... so do you, right?

Zhou Fang: Yeah.

Christina Cowgill: Um, but it does give that virtual trai- um, feel, and actually I've trained the majority of the nurses [00:19:00] over virtual platforms.

Mm. So we do all of our training, 100 hours of it, on Zoom.

Zhou Fang: Wow.

Christina Cowgill: And learn it, all the techniques that way. So it's, it's very, um, it's very safe. Mm-hmm. And, um, it, it's very efficient, right?

Zhou Fang: Yeah. That's really cool. So I'm curious, you know, um, your practice as a nurse brought you into, you know, how can we bring calm to both patients and nurse practitioners.

Mm-hmm. How has that practice been for you, like, for yourself, right? Like- Mm ... yes, of course, you're a very grounded person, otherwise you wouldn't be doing this work. But I'm curious, you know, how does this practice, um, air quotes, like, give back to you- Oh ... as a practitioner, this calmness or this, like, being grounded?

Christina Cowgill: Yeah. Well, the first 20 years of my career I was not so grounded. So I [00:20:00] think I hit my own, uh, saturation point around year 15. I had been working full-time- Mm ... in highly stressful environments, and I started to have my own healthcare problems. So, uh, when you don't deal with the stress that's building up in your body, or you're spending too much time caring for others, your body gives out.

So I started to get some, um, chronic health conditions-

Zhou Fang: Mm ...

Christina Cowgill: as well as some chronic pain. Okay. And that's where I really started to turn those tools that I thought I had learned pretty well at helping others use- Mm-hmm ... I started to turn them inward. And- I started to take a deep breath myself instead of just telling other people to take a deep breath.

Mm. I started to meditate even though it was super hard at first to- And,

Zhou Fang: yeah ...

Christina Cowgill: sit quietly for even 30 seconds. I started to really challenge myself for what would it look like if I did that. And what I can [00:21:00] say is that that rebuilt my capacity to wanna stay in this profession.

Zhou Fang: Mm.

Christina Cowgill: And it realigned me with the, the care- caring, compassionate person that I was when I first started, right?

Mm. So it allowed me to have a little bit more, um, humanness to me. Mm. And as I say this with all the love in my heart- But the COVID pandemic was hard on healers because there were banners at the hospital that said, "Heroes work here."

Zhou Fang: Right. Right.

Christina Cowgill: And at the end of the day, a hero wears a cape and doesn't have to eat.

They don't have to go to the bathroom. They don't have to take a vacation. And when you wear that hero cape for 15 years, you forget that you're human. So learning- Hmm ... uh, a really quick, uh, nervous system regulation, and for [00:22:00] me, that lives and is the essence of hypnosis.

Zhou Fang: Hmm.

Christina Cowgill: It gave me my lifeblood back, and it re-energized for another 20 years that I can look forward to in healthcare.

Zhou Fang: Hmm. I appreciate that. I also resonate with that a lot, but for me, it's not the word hero. Um, I do think y- it really comes down to communications, though. It's like, and I also feel like people say these words to make, feel p- feel, uh, proud of what they do. I understand that. At, uh, at the same time, to a point, it's kind of dehumanizing.

Christina Cowgill: Mm-hmm.

Zhou Fang: Like, I don't wanna be a hero, you know? Like, why, why do we have to carry that? Especially in healthcare. Like, a lot of the work is done by women. Like, women are already caretakers and doing a ton- Yeah ... of free work, and now you're labeling them as a hero, which means you are expecting them to do even more.[00:23:00]

Christina Cowgill: Yeah.

Zhou Fang: Um, and another example I will give just as kind of f- for, 'cause you inspired me to think about this, is when I had a, when I was working for a company, they often will say, "Oh, you are such a rock star."

Christina Cowgill: Mm-hmm.

Zhou Fang: And I'm like, I, that, I don't resonate with that at all. Yeah. Like, I don't... I, I like rock music, but in, I don't wanna be a rock star.

Like- Yeah ... that's just not me. I just wanna be me. I don't need- Yeah ... to be a rock star, you know? Mm-hmm. Like, I don't know. Like, or what people will say, "Oh, you rock." I'm like, "No, I don't. I don't want to." Yeah. So, like, and I, and I'm not assuming people have, like, bad intent, but it does indicate, you know, the words we choose, it does matter.

Christina Cowgill: Yeah. Yeah. I think words are so powerful, and that's where it comes right [00:24:00] back down to what is the- What is the basic premise of hypnosis is, uh, to allow the person to focus inward and to- Mm-hmm ... come up with their own language, their own word to describe them or to describe their state. Um, and so I think you're absolutely right, and I think, and thank you for that, Jill, because it's a great experience.

Uh, a great example of one word can make you shrink away from somebody or lean in to hear more.

Zhou Fang: Mm.

Christina Cowgill: And, right? Uh, and that's how I perceived healthcare too. Like, when I kept- Mm ... having to wear this identity that somebody else was laying on top of me, like a hero- Mm ... or, um, those y- you know, "You're such a rock star," right?

Yeah. Um, it, it's, it did. It took away my humanness to be like, "Yeah, well, right now I just, I need to also have- Mm-hmm ... a break," [00:25:00] right? Mm-hmm. I need to, um, take care of myself.

Zhou Fang: Mm-hmm.

Christina Cowgill: And, um, and, and nurses, uh, physicians alike, um, healers, we, we get into the field to help others. Right. And somewhere along the line, and oftentimes in our training, there was not a focus on making sure that the healer is healer- healed, right?

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. We have to take time to really reflect, and that's where, uh, through my own burnout journey and- Mm-hmm ... through working with people one-on-one, um, I've started- Mm ... to b- bring groups together. And those groups, by the way, are now in person again because we're-

Zhou Fang: Cool ...

Christina Cowgill: you know, now we're, you know, after the pandemic, we're craving in a world that is full of AI, right?

Mm. To really sit across ano- from another human-

Zhou Fang: Mm-hmm ...

Christina Cowgill: and be in the same space again, right? Yeah. So, um, I am doing some work that has a lot of hypnosis in it or, [00:26:00] you know, kind of closed eye process, some inner world work for building up resilience in nurses.

Zhou Fang: Mm-hmm.

Christina Cowgill: And, um, yeah, so, and, and some of the people from the collective, right?

Some other nurses who have studied, uh, words and the power of that are coming together. We're, we're infusing it with nature, we're infusing it with play, and we're infusing it with just some inner work so people can find their own identity again and reconnect with that.

Zhou Fang: That's awesome. I mean, I'm looking at your, uh, Calm Collective Care.

It looks like people are sharing their own experience there, and you have a library of, you know, like, um, I don't know, maybe nuggets of, like, how to access calm, like your audio library or maybe it's like meditation, five minutes, things like that. So you have resources- We do. Mm-hmm ... um, available for people.

Yeah. Um-

Christina Cowgill: Yeah ...

Zhou Fang: so I'm [00:27:00] not trying to put you on the spot, but I am curious, you know.

Christina Cowgill: Yeah.

Zhou Fang: I don't really wanna be hypnotized right now, but if you were to, like, say, say I'm a patient, I'm about to, uh, go into, like, operations or, or anyone who's going through pain. It could be physical pain- Mm-hmm ... or emotional pain.

Mm-hmm. Like, how do you use your skillset, not necessarily hypnotize this person, uh, but just to calm them, calm them down and just to soothe them?

Christina Cowgill: Sure. I'm gonna give you a very classic example, and I'll walk you through this, and you can keep your eyes open and, you know, no need to close your eyes or anything.

So I just want you to, uh, think about, um, a kitchen. I want you to think about a kitchen where you've had some happy memories. It could be your, your kitchen growing up, could be the kitchen, the first kitchen you had when [00:28:00] you moved out of the house and were on your own. It could be your kitchen now. Um, could be your grandma's kitchen or a friend's kitchen.

So just think about a kitchen and just imagine that you're stepping into that kitchen right now, whatever kitchen you've decided upon. Mm. Mm-hmm. And, you know, just notice are there curtains in the windows, the window open? Maybe it's a beautiful, uh, sunny day outside. Notice if there's a certain temperature in that kitchen.

Maybe something's been baking or cooking or there's a smell in the kitchen of something that's usually cooked there. Maybe laughter because, you know- Mm ... it is a fun kitchen, by the way. Mm-hmm. And just imagine yourself in that kitchen for a moment and, like, everything just freezes in time, and you're kind of magical and can walk over to the refrigerator.

You can feel your footsteps on the ground. You pull open the refrigerator door, feel that cold splash of air that comes out of the refrigerator, and, uh, hear the hiss of the seal as the refrigerator door opens. And even if there's not normally, uh, a lemon in your refrigerator, [00:29:00] today just imagine there's a lemon in the refrigerator, a bright yellow lemon.

And put it in your hand and kind of feel the dimply, waxy skin of the lemon and maybe give it a little squeeze, see how fresh it is. And take it to a place in your kitchen where you would normally cut up fruits and vegetables and just- Mm ... safely find a knife and just cut that lemon in half and watch as the juices pool on the cutting board behind it.

And take that half of a lemon and just bring it up to your nose and give it a little smell. And then because you're curious, just imagine that you've decided to take a big bite of that lemon, so the lemon is- Mm ... poured into your mouth.

Zhou Fang: Mm-hmm.

Christina Cowgill: So, um, yeah. That is a classic, um, experience of helping somebody reach into their mind and think about a kitchen.

So I'm gonna ask you, Jo, did you find a kitchen in your imagination there? Did you think about a kitchen?

Zhou Fang: I [00:30:00] did, actually. It's- it's not entirely a kitchen, actually. Uh-huh. It's more like a dining area. Um, I mean, growing up we had, uh, smaller kitchens, 'cause I grew up in China. Mm-hmm. Um, so most of our kitchens are not like, not like here, you know, like open space with an island, et cetera, lot, et cetera, lot of counter space.

So our kitchens usually are more limited or more confined space. So the- the image that came to my mind was actually my grandparents, like the dining room, which is- Uh-huh ... right next to the kitchen. And usually in the dining area there is like this, um, little dining table. W- again, small. It's like a, uh, it's like a square, like a little kind of breakfast table of some sort.

And then because we are in the south, so whatever we have on the table, we always have to cover it, otherwise the flies will come.

Christina Cowgill: Mm-hmm.

Zhou Fang: So what I see is really these like, say like [00:31:00] a, a breakfast items, some pickled vegetables, some porridge, or some stir-fried vegetable, 'cause we like savory breakfast- Mm-hmm

in China. So we will have that, and then after that my grandparents always just cover them with like a lid- Mm-hmm ... to keep them, keep the flies out basically.

Christina Cowgill: Yeah.

Zhou Fang: Um, so that's what came to my mind when you were talking about... I didn't, I mean, I did think about a lemon, uh, like you suggested, but when that showed up, it became more like a Westernized kitchen.

Yeah. Like a Westernized fridge that's like, you know, more modern, um, feeling. 'Cause again, I grew up in China, South China. We didn't use a lot of lemon in our cooking.

Christina Cowgill: Mm-hmm. '

Zhou Fang: Cause we don't have like salads, right? We don't have like a zesty food. But rather it's more like savory, it's like nourishing, warm.

Mm-hmm. Like a warm items.

Christina Cowgill: Mm-hmm.

Zhou Fang: Uh, even in a hot day we [00:32:00] eat warm things. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, so that's what came to mind. So yeah, that was nice. Uh,

Christina Cowgill: yeah. Uh, so I love that because I was trying to be pretty broad and you had your own focus going in on, on you, you know? Thinking about your grandparents' dining room and-

Zhou Fang: Mm-hmm

Christina Cowgill: and you were able to easily, at the speed of thought, contrast it to the Western world. And when I said lemon, you were able to kinda create this experience in your mind. And I bet you even for a moment you forgot that we were recording this podcast.

Zhou Fang: Yeah, just for a, a, a very quick moment. Yeah. But like, the s- the thing is, you know, 'cause we are not, uh...

I mean, at some point I would love to have like a real experience because I know, I still know we are doing this recording. And so I know that we are not really at, at a session, so like the kind of the subconscious in me is [00:33:00] still kind of like, "Okay, I better take, take notes about this."

Christina Cowgill: Mm-hmm.

Zhou Fang: Um, but I did have like a, a imagination or like a kind of flashbacks to my- Yeah

grandparents' dining room. Yeah, so it's like combination of imagination and also like, um- memory, kind of a recalling.

Christina Cowgill: Yeah. And I think that's the whole art of it, is just, uh, even the most well-hypnotized person, somebody who's on stage and volunteered, "Ooh, ooh, pick me, I wanna be hypnotized," and- Mm-hmm ... is going through all of the things up on stage, there's a part of their mind that knows exactly that they're still on stage, right?

Mm. They're not gonna do something that is against their, their moral code, right? Mm-hmm. And so even your ability to articulate that, which is so beautiful, and by the way, I'm not paying Jo to say this right? You, you're like- No ... part of me is already here, and part of me- Mm-hmm ... is a- also, like, uh, in my imagination and- [00:34:00] Mm-hmm

remembering these things, right?

Zhou Fang: Mm-hmm.

Christina Cowgill: So I think that's the, uh, that's where hypnosis is so vibrant. Like, we can be in a conscious conversation- Mm-hmm ... and use these tools of hypnosis, which is just allowing ourselves to access that, those memories, um, our feelings about those memories, and- Mm-hmm ... u- and our whole brain, if you will, right?

Mm-hmm. Where are the memories? Where are we right now? How are we doing- Mm-hmm ... and, and, and that's what makes it so unique, is it really is, um, that ability to have access to all of our mind.

Zhou Fang: It's really cool. I mean, I would, i- if I could, of course I'm not a medical practitioner, but if I, if I could, I would advocate, um, s- similar practice or hypnotherapy kind of practice in the OBGYN offices.

Mm-hmm.

Christina Cowgill: Mm-hmm.

Zhou Fang: Um, 'cause I remember, you know, I had [00:35:00] some pretty extensive exams and procedures on myself, and they don't give... Okay, for people who haven't done this, there's no such thing like, "I'm gonna numb you," or like- Yeah ... "Give you some medicine to reduce the pain." None of that. It just like you're going through this.

Um, and when I was there, I remember I did have a nurse practitioner with me, um, talking to me, and like even squeezed my hands just to make sure that I'm okay. But she wasn't, but she wasn't equipped with a hypno kind of language or, um- A hyp- hypnotic, is that how you say it? Hypnotic? Hypnotic. Mm-hmm.

Hypnotic, hypnotic language. Right. So what sh- what she did with me, which was helpful, was basically having a conversation with me. Like, "What did you do today?" Like, just chitchat as a distraction, which I'm grateful for. [00:36:00] At the same time, I still had that pain. Yeah. So I'm like, I'm very in pain and I'm trying to have a conversation with you to distract me from the pain.

Right. Um, so I really would love to at some point, whatever we do, to introduce this kind of practice into OBGYN offices. Mm-hmm. So, you know, like, you know, women go through so much pain. Just like a regular procedure or exam, we are in pain 'cause there's no pain reducers during those- Yeah ... procedures. No.

Yeah. You just go through this.

Christina Cowgill: Well, here's, here's the nice thing, Jo. Now that you know what you know, and I'm sorry that you had the experience where you still have a recall of that much discomfort and, during that procedure. And because we can help coach people before they get into those procedures, that's the advantage of the calm collected care.[00:37:00]

They can get on the phone, on Zoom, before a procedure and learn some of those skills. And I've had the surgeons even get back to me or the, the people who are doing the procedures, and they're like, "Wow, I've maybe done four procedures on that same person, and this time they had these, these different skills that they brought into the room, and I had to use less pain medication.

They were more relaxed." Mm-hmm. Right? And it's not to say that everyone then has a pain-free experience.

Zhou Fang: Right.

Christina Cowgill: Right? But it doesn't take but maybe one or two hours of working with a, a hypnotist to get those skills so you can invoke that same self-hypnotic, uh, trance, if you will, or that mindset, if you will.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So you can use it at, at an instant, you know? I work with people who are f- fear of dentists, and we can, we can coach them through that. And they go on to the dentist. I don't go with them, right? Mm-hmm. But they're able to, to find [00:38:00] that ability that their dentist or, or their- Mm-hmm ... their OBGYN doesn't have that skill set to, to do.

And if there's any GYNs learning or listening, I would love to teach you how to, to do these skills with your clients, 'cause it only takes, you know, a, two or three minutes to get somebody into a more relaxed, comfortable, calm state. Mm-hmm. And you can do whatever you need to do, you know, with a lot more ease and comfort.

Zhou Fang: Just, uh, for real, I was just at a dentist this morning.

Christina Cowgill: Oh, you were?

Zhou Fang: Mm-hmm.

Christina Cowgill: Oh. Did you have to get numbed up? Did you have Novocaine or...?

Zhou Fang: No, no. Luckily it was for cleaning.

Christina Cowgill: Okay.

Zhou Fang: Um, but I ha- I also have done those procedures before and-

Christina Cowgill: Yeah ...

Zhou Fang: yeah. Uh, so yeah, if we can introduce that into, uh, dentistry as well, then-

Christina Cowgill: Yeah

Zhou Fang: right?

Christina Cowgill: Right. [00:39:00] I mean, I think that, I guess we're... I know that you, you talk about this intersection of like... And for me, it's what is the intersection of healthcare, where we, we wanna get this procedure done, and then human care. And the intersection there is, for me, is helping people find- Their own internal pharmacy, right?

Mm. Their mind has all of these drugs. We have endorphins in our brain, and serotonin, and dopamine, and all of these endogenous- Mm ... chemicals that we have access to as being human. And with the right words, we can open up that pharmacy, and we can pour some more happiness into our nervous system. We can regulate, um, more comfort into our nervous system.

Yeah. We can pour in some more calm. Mm. And, you know, it's- We're wound up so tight [00:40:00] sometimes. Yeah, we do. And it just takes a little lubrication to- Mm-hmm ... have some more access to that. And-

Zhou Fang: Mm-hmm ...

Christina Cowgill: you know, you know, it just becomes a, a way that we can shift the mindset, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. We have to shift the mindset of healthcare practitioners and of the clients and of the patients- Mm-hmm

to be able to ask for this. This is what I need. I need, I need a few minutes. Let me get in the right frame of mind to go through what you're asking me to go through. Mm-hmm. Right? Um-

Zhou Fang: Yeah, appreciate that. I do think it has a lot to do with psychology- Mm-hmm ... is how to work with people and work with our own minds.

Christina Cowgill: Mm-hmm.

Zhou Fang: Um, how do we talk to, say, patients, and how do we speak to ourselves? I mean, I don't know. Like, to me, it sounds like, you know, we talk about having self-affirmation, right? Like, we talk about you can totally do this, and I know it's hard, but you can do it. You can go through it. And the other side of this is, [00:41:00] I don't know, lighter or more peaceful, more calm.

It, it kind of feels like that. It's, like, the kind of talk or self-talk or talking to patient that provides them a little bit assurance, a little bit of comfort, and letting people know, like, we can get through this. Like-

Christina Cowgill: Mm-hmm ...

Zhou Fang: you know, or somehow make the pain a little bit more, um, tolerable.

Christina Cowgill: Yeah.

Zhou Fang: As well.

And

Christina Cowgill: for a lot of, a lot of the healthcare practitioners, when they step into my training, they, they realize. They're like, "Oh, I already do some of this." Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I was like, "Of course you do," right?

Zhou Fang: Mm-hmm.

Christina Cowgill: And they're... And I think part of, part of them is re- also realizing I don't do it enough because...

And they're oriented towards the task that they need to do, whether it's- Mm ...

Zhou Fang: the

Christina Cowgill: documentation, or we're on a time schedule, or I really needed to ask 10 questions, you know? Mm-hmm. So how do we, [00:42:00] um, make this just a normal part of our way of communicating? Then it's already there. And then how do we take those extra 30 seconds to a minute to really get the perception of the other person, right?

Zhou Fang: Mm, I

Christina Cowgill: see. And to in- invite their experience in a way that feels really calm and natural, 'cause I learned s- so much about you with just that lemon experience, to be honest. Mm-hmm. Right?

Zhou Fang: Yeah.

Christina Cowgill: Than I could have learned in maybe talking to you for an hour. I learned about- Yeah ... your grandparents and your- Yeah

and you know that you're from China and what- Yeah ... what the Chinese, uh, meal system's like. I learned a ton about you- Mm-hmm ... in such a short amount of time.

Zhou Fang: Mm-hmm.

Christina Cowgill: It's just a skill. And your question was how, how do we do that in healthcare more? Mm-hmm. I think it's learning to- Be human. Have that human connection in a new way.

Zhou Fang: Yeah.

Christina Cowgill: Right?

Zhou Fang: Yeah. I mean, when you say healthcare, I see two things, right? One is a health, the other is a care. Mm-hmm. Like, you're a health practitioner, and then another... Like, you [00:43:00] provide care. And oftentimes, you know, we think about medicine, but we kind of overlook the care part. Mm-hmm. Like, how do you take care of people and ourselves?

'Cause I know nurse practitioners go through a ton of stress and heartbreak as well. So how do we provide that care and basically put care back to healthcare?

Christina Cowgill: Mm-hmm.

Zhou Fang: Um, so yeah, I think that's really powerful. Thank you so much for sh- really telling me about this practice that's not oftentimes discussed in our system.

Christina Cowgill: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're more than welcome.

Zhou Fang: Yeah.

Christina Cowgill: My pleasure. Yeah,

Zhou Fang: yeah. Yeah, hypnotherapy. Yeah, I think that's really cool. And, um, as we... Okay, one thing that could be really trippy is, I'm not suggesting we're doing this, is what if the entire conversation, that I was hypnotized? Did you do that to me? No. I hope not.

Christina Cowgill: Well, you know, [00:44:00] uh, there are telltale signs that somebody is sliding into- Yeah ... a, a little bit of a light hypnosis, right?

Zhou Fang: Mm, mm-hmm.

Christina Cowgill: And it is when, you know, it looks like two people engaged in a really good conversation.

Zhou Fang: Mm.

Christina Cowgill: So when all of a sudden the eye blinks are a little bit more, people are leaning in or taking a little bit deeper breath-

Zhou Fang: Hmm

Christina Cowgill: they're already in a, in a light state of hypnosis. Interesting. And, um, Milton Erickson, who's kind of the godfather of hypnosis, he was a psychologist, right? And, you know, there's a lot of work that can be done in just that light hypnotic experience.

Zhou Fang: Hmm.

Christina Cowgill: So for example, we can... Uh, a, a nurse who's... or anybody who's really good at doing hypnosis-

Zhou Fang: Mm

Christina Cowgill: could- Help somebody quit smoking in just conversation. Help them lose weight with just conversation. Help them sleep better because there's some subtle cues that, yeah, [00:45:00] I would imagine that you and I are both in a little bit of light hypnosis just- Mm ... in this conversation, you know?

Zhou Fang: That's so interesting.

I mean, it, it just reminds me, you know, whatever power we have does give us a responsibility to do good.

Christina Cowgill: Exactly.

Zhou Fang: It's like-

Christina Cowgill: With great... Yep ...

Zhou Fang: uh, somebody can really use that, uh, for different purposes.

Christina Cowgill: And I think history has proven that some people have, right? Mm-hmm. That's why sometimes this H word of hypnosis has such a, a black eye.

Zhou Fang: Mm.

Christina Cowgill: And it's because, uh, it is, uh, it's a communication skill set, so if it gets into the wrong hands, right? Yeah. It could be something that, uh, we do need to kind of inoculate ourselves with, right? Mm. Are, are other people putting their values and perspectives on us without our permission? Right. Like, do we have enough- Right

mindset to say, "No, that's not what I want," right?

Zhou Fang: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Christina Cowgill: So there is, is that responsibility that we all have as [00:46:00] humans, right?

Zhou Fang: Yeah. Yeah. Um, let's- That's fascinating ...

Christina Cowgill: use, use this with, um, with discretion and toward- orientated towards that person's best interest or highest interest, right?

Zhou Fang: Yeah. But since my dog cannot consent, I might use that on him.

Christina Cowgill: Oh, yeah. There

Zhou Fang: you

Christina Cowgill: go.

Zhou Fang: He's like, "Dog, go fetch the paper."

Christina Cowgill: I think dogs are always in a state of hypnosis. I mean, their tails are always wagging. They're just in the moment. They don't, they don't remember the past. They don't care about the future. They're just right there, right?

Zhou Fang: They're just right there. I know.

Just in the zone. Um-

Christina Cowgill: In the zone. In the flow. Yeah.

Zhou Fang: Oh my gosh, I love this. Um, great. So tell us how can people find you and contact you and work with you?

Christina Cowgill: Yeah. Well, uh, my name is Christy with a Y, C-H-R-I-S-T-Y, Cowgill, C-O-W-G-I-L-L. And I am, uh, on all the socials with, uh, my company Enter Into Calm. Um, so you can [00:47:00] find the Calm Collective, uh, Care team there.

So the other practitioners, you can find information about retreats and upcoming- Mm ... trainings and all of that. And I'm located in Oregon, and my office is in Newberg. So some people travel all the way out to Newberg, Oregon to, to see me here as well.

Zhou Fang: That's wonderful. Yeah, enter into calm. We'll make sure your website is on, in the show notes and people- Yeah

can email you and contact you, et cetera. And, uh, with that, uh, we're gonna conclude our conversation today. Oh my gosh. Thank you

Christina Cowgill: so much, Misty. Jo, this was great, and thank you Cam for introducing the two of us.

Zhou Fang: Yes, exactly. Thank you, Cam.

Christina Cowgill: Yeah.

Zhou Fang: Uh, I'm gonna stop recording here.