" If Anyone Had Asked Me, Why Are You Making A Movie? My Only Answer Was 'I'm Listening To It Because I Trust It'," with vee hua, on Making Reckless Spirits, Energy Work, and Cultural Connections.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: , [00:00:00] Hello everyone. Uh, welcome to the Intersection podcast, a program about intersectionality and all the stories that come with it. And, uh, I am thrilled to have my guest here today. I have known them for more than 10 years. Wild. Um, we met, we were, uh, young and cheerful.

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: Now we're old and jaded.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: Very much so. Oh my gosh. I know. Um, so I'm thrilled to introduce my old colleague and still colleague, I think and friend. Uh, on the program and we [00:01:00] is, uh, someone I look up to, in the creative space because my creative ability is very low. So, um, will introduce, I will, I will let vi to introduce himself. Welcome, vi.

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: As was, that's my Chinese name in Mandarin. Uh, I'm a filmmaker and a journalist mostly these days I'm working in arts, journalism and uh, some news related things, community related things. And I am also a filmmaker who makes short films in the narratives scripted space. I have one documentary as well, and I'm in the process of making my first feature film, which is called Reckless Spirits.

I think that's broad overview.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: we, which we will talk about. Yeah. You have a [00:02:00] very extensive and expansive I mean, when we met, you were doing design work and I knew you, like you mentioned, you have been a journalist for a long time and you. Managed and operated a magazine. I remember Redefine,

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: Still there. Still there.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: Um, and you have been in leadership as well in the creative space, and of course, uh, your filmmaking as well as your extensive experience with, um, you know, documenting your travel experience as well, which I have been following. You have a fabulous newsletter, so I'm really curious like. because you mentioned you speak Mandarin and your family, if I recall correctly, is from Taiwan.

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: Yeah, although my dad was born in Hong, [00:03:00] in China,

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: Okay, I

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: but they both grew up in Taiwan and my mom was born in Taiwan.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: Gotcha. Yeah, so you have a kind of multicultural background and I. I remember you moved to Portland a while ago, so I want to invite you to maybe, uh, take us like down to the memory lane, like it was like to be a creative kid and how did you, what made you decide to make it career, make it a career of yours?

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: Oh, um. Well, I don't think, you know, typical sort of immigrant Chinese family, I don't think being a creative was ever really a choice as a career situation. Um, I think when I was young, my parents were kind enough to give me like drawing lessons. 'cause I think they did recognize I had some like interest in that kind of thing, like.

Arts in general, even though I wouldn't say I'm [00:04:00] a very good drawer. Like, okay, uh, I could draw some things, but I would not say I'm very good at that. But I think they, they were able to sort of like provide me with lessons in that kind of did the typical, like forced me to play piano thing even though I really didn't wanna play piano.

Um, so I think those would be like my creative things I did when I was younger, just like various arts classes and stuff. And then in high school and middle school, there were photo classes, so I took up a lot of photography. Um, at that time it would be film photography, which I've recently gotten back into and find way more interesting than digital photography and.

Yeah, it wasn't until way later, um, after college basically, or all through growing up, I guess, because my family was really strict, so I didn't go out and hang out with other people that much. So instead what I ended up doing was like spending a lot of time with myself and. Building up a lot of skills, which at the time was like terrible [00:05:00] because at the time I'm like, I have no friends.

I'm not allowed to do anything. But then I got really good at writing and I like learned all these languages and learned how to build websites when I was in high school and like taught myself to do design stuff. So like all that stuff has sort of served. My journey to this day, but at the time really didn't make sense and really were not fun.

Um, and I think it wasn't until like college, like all through college, I got a job doing graphic design. So I studied sociology. Um, not really a job. Thing, you know, like there wasn't a clear job afterwards in studying sociology, even though I had a focus on law. Um, and graphic design was just something I kept doing and was the thing that I could find work for.

So I just kept doing that. So I think that was like my entryway into creative stuff and starting my own magazine when I was still in college redefined that still is continuing today. Um, and it was in 20. I dunno, I'm allowed to talk about this on this [00:06:00] podcast, but I'm gonna, and you can edit if you need, but in 2012, I had a mushroom trip that basically told me that I needed to make movies.

So I listened to it and it took me basically like I started off doing live projections for bands because I was in the music industry and I knew how to like. Have those connections, but I didn't really understand how to make a film film because it's so difficult. Um, so it took me like five years to figure out how to make an actual movie.

And that took also moving to la taking some classes, making my first film. And then since then I've sort of been film. Administrator or filmmaker. So I was the executive director of Northwest Film Forum for three and a half years. Also actually started there as a graphic designer before I became executive director.

Um, and yeah, that's, I guess that's my journey. And now I also, um, do, do film education and mentorship as well.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: That's awesome. I mean, a [00:07:00] lot of people say you can't make a living making art. Uh, I know it's very difficult. Uh, and I also think it is possible. Um, and you mentioned just real quick earlier, um. That you learned a lot of languages when you were in college. It's plural. need to know that. What, what?

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: In high school. So I mean, uh, I think since middle school I sort of spoke in Spanish and then now I'd say I'm fluent in Spanish. It took more sort of an off and on with that. Um, I taught myself to read and write Korean in high school because I was really into K-pop at that time. I'm not as into it now, even though now it's like super, super popular.

Um, but Korean took some Japanese barely retain anything, and then taught myself also a lot of Chinese. So like we grew up in the house speaking it, but to read and write, I taught myself a lot.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: That's awesome. I [00:08:00] mean, definitely, uh, you are a fluent Spanish speaker and, uh, we can chat about that, uh, a little later as well. And going back to your 2012 mushroom trip, we can definitely talk about it. Um, it's, I think it's very. Uh, inspiring, like a lot of people ex experimenting with it, or sometimes recreationally, recreationally, or for medical purposes, but I do think it's one way to, I don't know, to, to wake ourselves up in a sense. Um, or to kind of discover something that we didn't know we had. So yeah, definitely something, um, that's worth talking about. And so from 2012 to now, 2025, end of 2025, it is been 13 years your journey. Um. What [00:09:00] are the highlights, like the ups and downs or any like milestone you feel that will be important to share?

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: Related to filmmaking after sort of having. That discovery?

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: Um, just in general, I think, I think filmmaking is part of this kind of creative journey, and I

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: Mm-hmm.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: you continue to do all these projects. Um, so I'm curious to learn about, know, like how have you been navigating it, as a person. Um, as well as the learning along with it, I guess.

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: Fortunate in the sense of when it relates to work. Um, I often do not have difficulty [00:10:00] knowing what I'm supposed to be doing in, in this universe of existence. Uh, I think the mushroom trip was sort of an extreme example of that. I literally like heard a voice tell me like, you need to do this. And I was like, okay.

But once I listened to it and like trusted to listen to it. It was like wild, like all these doors open. Like I applied for a grant while I was still in Portland, got me all my, like, film equipment for free. Um, my friend gave me a book translation project for her family's memoir about like leaving communist China and that was paid for my film school.

And it was like all these things that, like as soon as I sort of had faith in it and like listened to it. It. It just became clear like this is what you're supposed to do, and like that was the same for making my first film. Everything just fell into place. That was the same for getting my executive director job at Northwest Stone Form.

It was just all very much like this thing, this thing, this thing felt like very guided.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: Mm-hmm.

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: And I think that when, when stuff feels guided [00:11:00] and you're able to like, sort of like trust in the energy of something happening, both because you want to make it happen, but also maybe sometimes even more 'cause something else is pushing it to happen or it feels that way.

Um, I think it makes some life decisions easier. I think it's, it's interesting because at this phase I've been sort of like toying with making my feature film for the past like. Off and on seven years. Seven years is when we started brainstorming it. And I think only really seriously for the past like five years has it been like more of a project.

But I think, uh, I don't know, I don't know if this is a takeaway, but it's like sort of like this interesting thing where like sometimes the universe gives you like this energy and it makes stuff easy to do or it feels easy to do. And then sometimes there's like. When, when that goes away at certain phases and you have to rely on your own, like whatever artistic delusion or confidence or whatever to sort of get [00:12:00] you through the more difficult parts.

Um, I think that's something that I'm sort of like both struggling with and learning from right now. Like the, the need to make your own things happen when. When the energy may not be pushing it in the same way as it is sometimes, but also like knowing when to like not force things and to just like let them happen on their own timeline, if you will.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: I really appreciate that. Um, I want to put out a disclaimer. We're not a show about encouraging doing drugs. Um, um. Um, but uh, and also if you do have the opportunity to experience a mushroom journey or like a medicine journey, uh, definitely have someone who's experienced to guide

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: Mm-hmm.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: a lot of people do that alone.

Uh, I have never done that alone. Um, kind of situation was also guided, so that definitely [00:13:00] advocate for guided, um, medicine journeys. That's really important for our safety and health. Um, and I do really agree. I think the, the part, you know, trusting it and listening to it, not to say this is like superstitious or ooh or whatever, but I do think, you know, in our life we do need to pay attention to the invitations and to the callings that we encounter.

'cause a lot of us, you know, cruise through life and then a lot of the people. I remember coming through, coming across a piece, you know, asking people who are older or who have like a near death experience, like what, what kind of a device they have or, or what did they regret, or something like that.

Like a lot of people really said something about, I wish I had done this thing that I wanted to do. You know, it's like. I didn't. But by the time I [00:14:00] think about that, it might be too late. So I think there's a lot of like wisdom and truth in listening to the calling and listening to the energy, like what is speaking to you.

So I think that's really wise.

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: Yeah, and it's, it isn't, it's interesting when it comes to like an intuition place not to, it's, it can be hard to discern, but I think if through my journey of learning how to make movies, if anyone had asked me like, why are you making a movie? I did not have a good answer. My only answer was like, I heard this thing.

I'm listening to that thing because I trust it,

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: Mm-hmm.

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: I, I've never been someone who's like. My favorite, well, I have my favorite directors in movies, but not in the way that like a true film nerd. Like where they like know every director's, every move and like have all these scenes from certain films that they love and like people they wanna be like, I'm, I've never been like that and I still am not like that.

I think, um, [00:15:00] filmmaking is just sort of like a tool and, and a creative outlet amidst all these other sort of creative outlets.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: Who are your favorite directors? Now I'm

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: Uh uh, I dunno. I don't really know. I have movies I like from people. My favorite movie ever is Eternal Sunshine of The Spotless Mind.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: really?

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: Yeah.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: Ah, are you a very positive person?

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: Uh, I used to be.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: Again, we're jaded. Um.

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: not saying I'm super positive now, but uh.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: Yeah. I feel that's really interesting. Uh, it's almost like, uh, a gut check and you said, uh, intuition, it's like maybe we don't have the exact words to articulate the why, but your body knows, right. Or your, your spirit knows. Um, it's, it's this kind of like, uh. [00:16:00] Uh, invisible guide who is telling us, you know, this is what you want to do and what you're supposed to, and if something comes out of it, I think that's fantastic. Um, so since we mentioned Spirit, uh, I would love to talk about, uh, reckless Spirits, your ongoing project. So tell us. What gave you the idea, you can say Spirit too, um, or what gave you the idea of making a film that is called Reckless Spirits and how it has been.

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: So me and my co-writer Lisa d started brainstorming this project in, I think 2017 or 2018 when I was still living in Los Angeles. Um, and how came about? Part of it was. We wanted to see certain types of representation. [00:17:00] At the time, it was two Asian American leads that were our alter egos. Um, now it's a Latinx and, and Asian lead just due to sort of like casting and what, what happened through the journey of filmmaking.

But. I think both of us have like intuitive abilities or abilities to, or interest in working with like dreams or magic or tarot or whatever. But at the same time, living in somewhere like Los Angeles, um, there's a lot of fakery in that. There's a lot of like abusive religion and like taking advantage. I mean, look at Scientology, all these cults and like.

I remember I had a friend who read tarot for like some rich psychic lady, and they would, people would pay like hundreds of dollars for a reading, but it wouldn't even actually be from that person. It would be from my friend pretending to be that person. So it was just like stories of that. That are like rampant in Los Angeles because there's so many people who are seeking and there's so much of [00:18:00] this like new age culture alive that I think we wanted to tell a story that both centered these certain characters, which would be, uh, a non-binary performance artist and a therapist who are best friends, um, and put them in a setting where their real life spiritual beliefs are being challenged by.

Sort of like this world of fiery and charlatanism as seen through the cult leader who's trying to tear their friendship apart and make one of them his cult wife. Uh, so that's kind of the, that's kind of the, the philosophical underpinning of it, I guess. But I think stylistically. It, it is sort of like influenced by growing up on the type of comedies that I liked, which was like a lot of like Chinese Kung fu comedies and like a lot of Black American comedies, both of which are very like.

Physical humor like lot, lot of slapstick, lot of lot of jokes that also don't age well, that are super [00:19:00] sexist and transphobic and like whatever. But putting that aside, like the way that the humor is very elevated and very over the top is a lot of like the style of this film and it's not. Typical American comedy style, with the exception of maybe like some, some weirder stuff like Zoolander or like Pee Big Adventure, something like that.

Yeah.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: Okay. Yeah, I, so am newish to, um, older comedy in the us. Like I love comedy in general. I always enjoyed it, but my gateway to older comedy is my friend Sarah Williams. Um. Comedy film feature at the Hollywood Theater in Portland. It's called Comedy 1 0 1, and every quarter she plays an older comedy film that [00:20:00] might have become, it could have become problematic or some of them stamp pretty well.

And

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: Hmm.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: recently, we saw, I saw for my first time, black Dynamite. Uh. Do you think that has that kind of like style or genre had any influence to reckless spirits? Because you mentioned Chinese, Kung fu and physical humor.

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: Um, I didn't, I don't, I think black was a little bit later, but I think, um, uh, I grew up and was influenced a lot by like Wayans brothers, uh, comedies and like. Again, sort of like offensive, uh, Jamie Fox movies and stuff back in the day. But, so yeah. I mean they're, I think they're all related in a way with like hyper exaggerated characters who like act not like people in the normal world would really act.

So Yeah.[00:21:00]

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: I feel, uh, reckless Spirits is the reclaiming film. We have to. Reclaim

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: Hmm. There's a lot of things to reclaim.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: Yeah.

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: think there's a lot to reclaim because I think also like showing, so we have a short film proof of concept for reckless spirits. That's like the first 12 minutes of the feature. We do need to reshoot it all 'cause we have a different cast now. But I think it becomes very obvious, like what you're reclaiming when you're in certain types of rooms.

So I found like rooms that are like overwhelmingly queer or POC, they really, really, really understand the humor in the way where they're like. Laughing loud in a way that you can hear them. And then I've been in some other rooms which are like, really, really don't get it. And I would say the demographic is like the complete opposite and it's just like crickets.

And so I think there is, um, you know, there's like a 10,001 will Pharaoh movies. There's like all these comedies from like a white comedic [00:22:00] perspective that. People I've sort of like been used to like, I think in the film industry they say like, oh, comedies are hard. Comedies are difficult to sort of like cross multicultural boundaries because they're so quote unquote, like specific for each culture kind of.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: Mm-hmm.

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: but I think there's a lot of sense of humor that is a kin to like a Chinese kung fu comedy or Black American comedy that just, you don't really see as much on like mainstream. Screens 'cause we're so used to seeing like a certain type of Hollywood acceptable comedy sort of. Um, and then I'll just quickly say like, one other thing I think there is worth reclaiming is sort of this like a lot of times.

Grants for films want to fund, you know, trauma porn type stuff for POC characters, queer characters. And this film's not about that at all. There's not like, I mean there's people who are sad, but we're not like talking about slavery or like people getting beaten up or whatever, you know? And I [00:23:00] think a lot of times it is harder to sort of get those types of films made because I don't, I don't know why funders don't wanna.

Support those in the same way that they might wanna support a film about like, oh, so sad, these poor brown people kind of movies. So.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: Yeah. Yeah, I definitely hear that. I think it's really hard to have a breakthrough, um, or like you said, you know, reclaiming the space. I feel like the few example I can think of is not trauma porn is like, um. Crazy Rich Asians that's not a trauma born. I feel that's like, it's just so delightful

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: Mm-hmm.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: to see, you know, who look kind of like us can lead in these type of films that is not like, either they are gangsters or they are super traumatized by certain [00:24:00] things.

So yeah, I agree. I think it is, uh, kind of like a, a market where. That's really worth trying to reclaim and to tell people no, there is more we can do as creatives, as storytellers, really. I think there's a lot of storytelling in it. Um, and it's really cool to see the project unfold. And I'm also curious because you have been, uh, conducting, uh, um. How has that been? Um, 'cause I know it's founding can be tricky and there are a lot of ways to make a successful campaign. Um, I'm curious, like, you don't have to of course, disclose everything, but like so far, how has that experience been for you?

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: Oh Lord. Um, I'll just say, yeah, [00:25:00] film fundraising is so difficult. Um. We, we have thus far been funded. We have about half the funding for the film to be able to shoot, uh, soon. And I, the first big chunk did come from crowdfunding. We had this like, crazy high goal because our friends who made the Asian American Kung Fu comedy, the Paper Tigers had done a a hundred thousand dollars Kickstarter.

And I'm like, sure I can do that. Which was like, almost killed me. Um, but I, I'm very open to talking about it because I think there's not enough people. Like, they're one of the few people in town in Seattle who I can talk to about making a feature film because there just really aren't that many POC creators in the Northwest who are making feature films, especially at like a higher budget level.

There just really aren't that many. Um, so I'm very open to talking to anyone who wants like crowdfunding notes, but it, it really is like a job. It's like you have to be doing something every day and you have to also be like, making [00:26:00] content that people wanna like. Look at and then also not feel, and this is the thing I have trouble with, which is like not feel like a total loser or totally rejected if like you're emailing everyone you've ever known in your existence and like not everyone's gonna show up for you financially.

Like some people might share it, some people might do nothing. And then you just have to sort of be like, okay, it's not personal. Maybe I didn't wanna fund the film. Maybe don't get the film. Maybe like whatever number of reasons, maybe they're busy. Um, I think it, it's just like a very interesting process to fundraise as a filmmaker, because prior to that, my experience fundraising was primarily through nonprofit organizations, and that's still the bulk of my fundraising experience, and it's a very different thing, right?

Because a nonprofit experience. You know, you have your built-in audience, you have a whole organization, you have a whole team. Whereas like when you're fundraising for a future film, it's basically like you, and you might have producers who can do some stuff for you, but like people are mostly gonna give to you as a [00:27:00] filmmaker because they know you, because they like your work, because they like whatever.

So you really do have to. To convince people that your story is worth telling. And I think, uh, it's difficult, but here we are. Um, and then I'll say quickly, like, there's obviously also grants, um, but, but there's not honestly that many grants for narrative filled. There's more for documentary and also with all the current stuff happening in the country, it.

Less as well. Um, and then there's also investments, which are the potential for people to make their money back if they give to you. And that's the phase we're in right now.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: Uh, thank you for sharing that. Definitely, uh, want to call out to listeners if you, yourself, or if you know someone who might be interested in this narrative feature or this story, this way of storytelling. Um, definitely encourage you to get in touch with V and want to [00:28:00] encourage our listeners to check out, um, the fundraising platforms too.

We will include those links in the show notes. Um, I resonate with that because I'm also kind of like low key trying to get funding for a research project and. You know, like me as an individual, I'm not a nonprofit. So I've been talking with folks who might have some insights on this and everyone says, you know, if you are not a nonprofit and if your project, like you said, is not addressing the current situation. Obviously in this country then it's really difficult. And the project, the research project I'm trying to do is around abundance. It's like how can we counter scarcity mindset? It's around the abundance mindset, which, you know, cares? Uh, so yeah, I definitely have been experiencing. [00:29:00] Uh, some discouragement as well.

Um, but I feel like you said, you know, if it is a calling, if someone is telling you this is something you should do, um, then it is worth trying. So, um, thank you for that learning there.

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: A

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: Uh.

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: give. Give the money for this abundance podcast.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: I know, uh, people like invest, invest in our collective abundance. Um, okay, so now I want to, uh, explore something that's. Relevant, very relevant to your filmmaking, uh, is the things that inspire you. You mentioned earlier, you know, you speak fluent Spanish, and one thing that I [00:30:00] learned in recent time is you now split time between the US and Mexico. Uh, and also you take annual trips with your family and friends to China, and of course your Mandarin. You know, like we, we speak in Mandarin. Um, and as someone who still rely on dingo to practice my Spanish, and, and of course this is obviously beyond the language, um. Language is very learnable, I think, to a lot of us, but culture may not be. Um, so I'm curious to learn from your experience, you know, growing up in the US now splitting time between the US and Mexico, in a different culture and still [00:31:00] being able to revisit your roots.

Uh. In China, how has that journey been for you personally and also perhaps influencing your work as well?

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: What a great question. Um, where to start. It's, uh, there's a lot to unpack in there. Um.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: We got time.

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: Okay, great. So I'm an American born Chinese Taiwanese person. As I mentioned, my, my dad was born in China. My grandparents on my mom's side are also from China. Uh, so I'm Chinese ethnicity, even though my parents grew up in Taiwan, but they don't really, they're like.

They don't really consider themselves Taiwanese. Taiwanese. They don't even speak Taiwanese. So I think they moved here in the seventies. Um, and I was fortunate enough to be in a household, you know, with grandparents that spoke Mandarin, and my parents also insisted that we learn Mandarin. So I, I have grown up [00:32:00] speaking it unlike a lot of my friends of the certain age.

They've, you know, had to learn as they got older or like, whatever. I speak better than my brother. He doesn't. I really speak very well. Um, I don't know how that happened, um, but I think we, we did grow up gonna like China and, well, more so Taiwan. 'cause we had my dad's side of the family in Taiwan growing up.

So we would like regularly go, go back, um. But it never felt like a place where I could live. I don't know. It's like, even though I speak Chinese, like well, I'm definitely afraid of speaking with like young people, you know, because I like, I speak like, yeah, right, because it's like I speak Chinese that like is my parents' age, you know?

Like I can go on a tour and understand everything and talk to the tour.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: I feel that, yeah, yeah, it's, yeah, it's kind of Gen Z language here. [00:33:00] like, what are you talking about? Like, there are so many things I just have no clue. I still don't know what six seven means. What is six, seven?

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: I

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: Uh.

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: dunno either. I dunno either. But I'll say I was on the airplane and this like tiny kid behind me didn't say anything and just all of a sudden I just heard hear her say six seven.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: Right. So yeah. Okay. So you speak old Mandarin. Okay.

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: Yes, I speak old people modern, so it's like, it's never felt like, oh, I should move to Taiwan or like China. It just like doesn't feel like it makes any sense culturally for me, even though like I feel like I am most tied in with the culture through language. So like through translating my friend's grandma's memoir through.

Like song lyric dissection. Like I just think the language, the traditional Chinese language is so beautiful and so interesting, like all the symbolism that's in it, that that really does connect me. But then other than that, it's like I don't have even like barely [00:34:00] anyone to speak Mandarin to in the us.

You know, I speak with my parents and then like occasionally with friends, but it's not like enough to maintain it in any legitimate way. Right? So that's where Spanish comes in, I think, because it's like, I grew up in California. Though I was born in New York, um, and since like middle school I've been learning Spanish, which is funny 'cause my mom was like, they had us like try different languages.

And at first I learned German and after learning I was like, I'm gonna learn German. My mom's like, no, you're an idiot. Like learn Spanish, don't like German. Like what are gonna do with German? And I'm so glad she said that because now it's like, it's been a huge thing in my life. So I think. Mexico has always been like very influential for me.

I think when we were in high school, when I was still gonna church, we would take mission trips to Mexico every summer with like, it's just like hundreds and hundreds of people who go to Mission in, in Mexico and you know, whatever. Uh, I don't know what the hell we were doing, or [00:35:00] like, that part doesn't really make sense to me now.

But in terms of like. The language and seeing Mexico in the early two thousands, which is very different from how it is now, um, really did impact the way that I saw the world. And I remember like my college entrance essay was actually about diversity. Was in like 2001. Um, and about how like, being both Chinese and like going to Mexico a lot, like really influenced the way that I saw the world and like class and whatever, whatever.

Um, but where to now, like I did, I, I wanted to become fluent in Spanish earlier, but it wasn't until maybe like three years ago that I really, really like started trying. It's always been like passable, you know? Um. But I think what is interesting is that going to Mexico a lot and when I'm in Mexico, I actually feel more in touch with being Chinese.

Um.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: Interesting.

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: Yeah. And that in, that's influenced my art. So like last year I was like, I need to [00:36:00] embroider. I don't know why, but I started embroidering and uh, through my embroidery, a lot of what I do is like Chinese language stuff.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: Mm-hmm.

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: and I think it's something about being in the US that it's sort of like. I think, you know, I think some immigrant communities can come here and surround themselves with only being in their immigrant community.

So they still feel very strong in their sense of culture and identity. But I think as an American born Chinese who's like maybe been surrounded by growing up like mostly white communities or like fractured, you know. C communities, not too many of any single one kind of thing. Um, that it's always felt like I don't really belong here or there.

Like, it doesn't feel like anywhere really fits, like, I'm not gonna move to Taiwan. But also I don't feel that. American values aligned either. And I think Mexico for a lot of things is, feels more Chinese to me than American culture sometimes. Like the, the markets, the smells, the food, the way that [00:37:00] people treat each other, like how people care about family, like all that stuff aligns a lot more than with American values.

Like how you can buy you, you know, your local street vendor and it's not just going to a supermarket all like all these. Things, you know, that I feel more comfortable with that I don't find in the us. I do find them there. And I also think it's like, um, pe, I dunno, most Mexican people I meet have pretty good like.

Uh, the res respect. Respect is a weird word, but that's what they've told me a lot like for Chinese culture. And I think maybe there's like this sort of idealization of Chinese culture as like Buddhism and calm and philosophical, but I get that a lot. Like people are like, oh, your culture's so cool. And I'm like, cool.

Um, but I think it's also like a byproduct of being in the US where everything is so watered down that it just feels like you're nothing sometimes like it feels like. You just lose who you are. There's like no way to stand out or like, I don't, I don't really know what it is, but I [00:38:00] do think being there, I've been more like happy or interested in exploring like what it is to be Chinese or connected to the Chinese language.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: It is so fascinating you say that because that's, that's actually, I've shared this with my boyfriend and another friend, uh, who, whose family is from Mexico. I told them that I felt Chinese in Mexico, like when, when we were there a little over a year ago. I keep saying, um, this soup reminds me of China, like this chicken soup, chicken soup, wherever the food is.

Or there will be some like safe fruits, for example, would also remind me of China. And of course the, uh, the markets, the open markets, the wet [00:39:00] market, they, the noises, right? It's like people just coming and out. They will be rubbing your back. It's very crowded. Doesn't matter. Everyone's sweating, but everyone shares the table and just sit down and eat. That reminds me a lot of, uh, at least me growing up in South China. Um, and I, I actually was surprised by that experience 'cause I was just like, it just brings back so many memories for me. So I shared that with, um, my friend from Mexico. I was like, I don't know if this is a racist thing to say, but I actually think Mexican culture is also very Chinese.

It's like I can, and also, you know, in Mexico there is, uh, MUTOs, um, they of the dead. And in China, you know, we have ji like tomb sweeping [00:40:00] days. And experiencing a Day of the Dead reminded me a lot of tomb sweeping days

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: cool. Mm-hmm.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: But the difference is, of course, day of the Dead is very much, it happens at night. of it. Uh, I mean there, there's rituals, the, the, the FrieNDA, the A operanda, things like that. Um, and we have that too. Uh, although, you know, you go to visit the tombs during the day, but we have similar things like the a Operanda, so that just specifically makes me feel like the culture, um, connections are very much there.

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: Yeah. No, totally. And I, I think to that point, like that's something that with the exploration and reckless spirits, the film that I think is like really interesting 'cause it's like we, in the film we have ancestor ghosts who come visit both the LA. Latin and the Asian character, and I [00:41:00] think in American culture that it's almost like weird, like to have that in a film, it's not very common.

You have to sort of be like, oh, I guess that could happen. But it's like in Asian and Latin media, that's so normal and like growing up culturally it's normal and it's like you just, people just believe in certain types of things that are unseen a a little bit, or a lot of it more than this American society.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: Yes, I totally agree. Like I believe, you know, the place we, we live in usually is surrounded by spirits. And I feel, I don't know if this is an American thing or anything, but I feel the conventional wisdom is when we talk about spirits and ghost, we think about things that are. Bad or like malicious or vile. But when I think about spirits or ghosts or [00:42:00] energy, I think of them as like, warm. Like it's a presence. It's a presence that may not be visible to you, but I think their existence. Even though we can't really feel it, like touch it, I mean, we can feel it, but we can't really touch it. I, I actually consider that as like a welcoming presence, but not like a Malaysia or a vial thing.

So I think that's a culture difference as well. Um, cool. I feel we just slightly geared the conversation towards a very spiritual realm, uh, which is wonderful. Uh, and now I don't even know how to end this conversation. Um, I do want to mention, you know, [00:43:00] when you say. You, you felt that, hmm. There is, uh, something calling on you and you decided I'm going to make films I know you do magic and tarot reading, like that.

And I love it, by the way. Um, I have, I have friends in Portland who also do that and. A friend of mine is a medium. She told me once that my grandparents were there with me and I was just like, oh God, why? Why do I not have disability? Why do I not, not there?

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: Would you want it? Would you want it?

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: I would. I would. I would love the way she described.

My grandparents is so poetic and beautiful and I was just immediately in tears.

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: Hmm.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: But, um, but yeah, so to talk about the spiritual practice, I [00:44:00] guess, you know, with these like tarot or like, um, chart reading, what are the other tools for spiritual

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: Dreams Dream. I got a lot of stuff from dreams.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: Okay. Yeah. Talk about that. Like how are these practices supporting you now?

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: Hmm.

Um, I do still listen to them. I think, uh, tarot is a little more active where if I'm like needing advice, I seek it. I will say that lately I've gotten sort of mixed messages, so I think when I get mixed messages, I'm either like, okay, I need to stop asking so much, or I need to actually like, trust my intuition and stop relying on these external crutches so much because I think like any sort of like.

Let's say religion, almost like, I think there is a way that you can use any sort of divination or [00:45:00] any sort of wisdom that is a little too obsessive and a little too unhealthy, um, that it becomes like more like fanatic than it is actually like a relationship to the spirit or relationship to your intuition.

If that makes sense. Like I think sometimes I'm like pulling too many ERO cards. I'm like, no, I shouldn't. I just asked this. I'm gonna keep asking the same thing anyway and like scratch this itch. And I don't think that's necessarily healthy. I think with my dreams, um, I'll have dreams that are just like very, very clear or someone will tell me something, um, or give me a piece of info that I'm like, okay.

Got it. That's cool. Um, and I think also. Like this is more in other people's realms, but I, I think as we're making this film that has a lot of spiritual messaging, it's really important for me that the people on the team or the actors also have that kind of relationship. So all my actors are kind of like woo woo themselves.

Like we just cast our [00:46:00] Mexican actor. Yeah. Our Mexican actor told me, uh, their name is Goose, told me that they had a dream. That about how to do their audition for us. So like they saw my poster casting. Then our cinematographer, who's their friend, emailed them and was like, you should do this. And then I emailed them and they're like, three.

Cool. And then they were, they had a dream basically. And in the dream they were doing a rehearsal. And in that rehearsal they were being told like, this is how you should say your lines. This is how you should make your costume. Because the character had a costume and this person actually made the costume for the audition, which is like over the top right.

Um, but then it was like very obvious, like, this is the person and they put in the effort and this dream helped to guide their effort. And like, I just think that's so cool. And I think as like if, if you believe that we're spiritual people, I think sometimes we can connect with one another on that kind of level.

Not just, not just me with my own, [00:47:00] whatever self telling me to do whatever, but also like in communication with other people who are like, oh, we should work together on this. Or whatever. I dunno.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: It's almost kind of like some kind of, uh, affirmation.

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: Mm-hmm.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: It is like, yep. Confirmed. Um, that's really, really cool. Um, I mean, now I want to do a session with you, read a card or something.

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: Do a session with me. Do it.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: Okay. That, that's

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: gotten, you've gotten before.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: tarot. Not so much tarot. Well, once or twice, but I don't really remember.

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: Okay. Cool.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: Sorry, spirit. Um, I have definitely done some chart reading. Um, and also being, you know, told what my grandparents, you know, were like,

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: Mm-hmm.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: um, yeah, [00:48:00] I'm definitely, yeah, I would like to have more spiritual practice. That's not, that's not necessarily rooted in religion. And I'm not speaking against religion. I think that's great. People have their own system, et cetera. For me, I'm more of like a, oh, this universe, or like this forest, you know, this ocean.

Like I, I would like to think there is a something greater out there that's not necessarily a human. Um, so, so yeah, I think for me too, something more to explore, uh, for sure. So to wrap up our, very artistic conversation, um, where, where do people find you and specifically, uh, reckless Spirits.

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: Yeah, so I think people can find out about myself and Reckless Spirits by going to my website, which [00:49:00] is V-E-E-H-U a.com ve hu.com. Um, and if people wanna support through investment for the project, they can visit we funder.com. Reckless period spirits and

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: know that. Uh, a funding platform.

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: yeah, it's, uh, it's, it's like kind of like crowdfunding, but not exactly because people who are giving to it, they're receiving put the potential to make their money back.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: I see. Okay. Uh, so definitely encourage folks to check it out, um, and, uh, whether or not we are gonna do a session in person or in Seattle or Mexico, we'll just have to listen to it.

vee-hua--they-them-_1_12-18-2025_144001: Yes, we.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_144008: Thank you so much, vi Uh, I am going to stop recording here.