" Our Body Gives Us Signals When Something's Not Right." with Wendy Kleinfeldt, on Being a Third Cultural Person, Women in Leadership, Radical Accountability, and Mind-Body Connection.

[00:00:00] All right. Okay. Uh, we are rolling. Um, hello everyone. Uh, welcome back to the Intersection, a podcast program about intersectionality and all the journeys and the stories that come with it. And as we all know, every journey and. Story behind them is a real person. And, um, today I'm thrilled to have a, a longtime friend and peer and colleague Wendy Kleinfeld on the program.

She is, uh, fabulous. Fabulous leader. Yeah. And um, we met when she was still living in Portland and now she's in Phoenix, Arizona. And she's a high performing woman leaders coach. And, uh, I'm excited to have her here today and share her story. Welcome, Wendy. Well thank you Joe for the kind introduction. I'm [00:01:00] excited to be here at any time I can support another friend in her journey, whether it's to, you know, amplify you in any way.

I am happy to be here. Yeah, I think when we first met, actually, it goes back to our shared experience with a Women in leadership group in Portland, I think. And, uh. I remember you giving me advice as an immigrant because I was going through my immigration process and you actually gave me some ideas like where I could go, um, for employment at the time.

So I, you know, I think back and feels like so much. Changed since. Yeah, I bet. For both of us. Yeah, for both of us. Um, so I know you have an extensive and broad, um, background internationally. Yeah. So maybe [00:02:00] start our conversation with. You know, looking down the memory lane, like Sure. What's your story? Yeah, yeah.

I, you know, I think my story is one that tends to surprise people because they don't, um, they don't necessarily pick up on that, you know, when they see me, which is true for everyone, right? We just don't know people's stories because we don't look beneath the surface. So my international journey started out when I was very young and my parents moved us to Hungary when I was.

Seven years old. Um, and throughout that international upbringing, I call myself a third culture person just because living life in Hungary wasn't just that, oh, we are now immersed in the Hungarian or Eastern European type of culture. We, you know, my parents still maintained a lot of their Chinese traditions at home.

We, they got very involved with the Chinese community that was growing there. And [00:03:00] at the same time, they also put me in an, uh, international school that was, um, American founded. So then I, you know, there I was exposed to a lot of the American culture as well as kids from I think like 20 plus countries. Oh wow.

So that's, so for me, growing up and, you know, having kids from all around the world was normal. Uh, that to me was very normal to be in an international environment. Um, it wasn't until that I moved to the US when I found out that that's actually not normal. Most people, you know, go through their lives.

Going to school with kids in their neighborhood and everyone's from, you know, relatively the same place. Mm-hmm. But for me, that was, that's just kind of how I grew up was, you know, I was in a school with over t you know, 20 plus nationalities represented in an American school, in Eastern Europe, in Hungary, while going home to a Chinese culture, family.

And then when I [00:04:00] went to college, it was the same, you know, my campus had, you know, kids from over 20 or 30 different nationalities. Where did you go to college? So I went to Thailand. Yeah, so that was, um. That, that's actually probably what I would say, you know, one of the best decisions and adventures I've ever taken in my life.

And, uh, at the time when I was, you know, just six, 17 ish when I, you know, applied and decided to do that, it was, you know, for very narrow and selfish reasons. Um, I wanted to be with my high school boyfriend. We wanted to do college together, and in my mind, that was also. One of my biggest sales successes, I call it, because you know, for those who are not familiar, when you grow up with very strict Chinese parents who have identified a path for you, oh yeah.

And then you try to tell them that you wanna do something different. That's almost unheard of. And so not only did I, was I able to convince [00:05:00] them to let me go to Thailand, but you know, I had their blessing. Oh, wow. More, less, more or less. I mean, I won't go into all the stuff I had to go through with them, but around that.

But you know, the end result was I still was able to spend about four years of my college years in Thailand, and which added to again, my global, you know, mindset, my global perspectives. Mm-hmm. Again, uh. I, it still had not dawned on me that my life and my experiences were unique be because that's just who I, you know, like everyone around me was like this.

So I was like, yeah, this is just, this is normal. My life is normal. Yeah. Right. And it wasn't un, like I said, you know, it wasn't until I moved to the US where people were like, wait, you did all that? Mm-hmm. Like, that's amazing. I'm like, no, it's not. Everyone was like that. You know, when I grew up. Yeah. Yeah.

Um, that's fascinating. Uh, on a side note, Thailand is on my, like, top of my list. I'll have to ask you for recommendations. Oh, absolutely. You, you gotta go. I mean, we've been [00:06:00] meaning to go back for such a long time and part of me also wants to, you know, retire early in Thailand, so Nice, awesome, awesome place.

I wanna go to Chang Mai, but, uh, yes. Yeah, you should go. Um, so when did you move to the US and why? Well, I moved to the US to continue my education, so I went to school for psychology because I really wanted to understand people. I, I just had this general thought that I wanted to help people and, and I thought psychology might be interesting.

And then once I studied psychology and, you know, came towards the end of my four year, uh, that's when. You know, it was revealed. What I found out around, I mean, I don't know exactly when, but it was around that time I found out that, oh, you actually need a, uh, an advanced degree in psychology to actually do anything with it.

Mm-hmm. I was like, oh, I did not know that once when I signed up. So it's like, okay. So I spent five, four years. My parents are waiting to see what I'm [00:07:00] gonna do with this. And so I said, well, I guess I'll just go to grad school. That seems to be the natural next step, right? Like you need advanced degree in psychology to really try to practice it in any way.

And at that time I still had ideas of wanting to get into academia, playing around with maybe being a therapist. So, but so it made more, it made sense either way. Because if you wanna implement and do something with psychology, you need an advanced degree. And that still hasn't changed to this day. Right.

So I moved to US because I went to grad school. I, you know, first moved to New York City, I got into NYU and uh, I will always have a place in my heart for New York City, unlivable not. Unlivable, but so unique and I love it. Um, so after a year at NYU, I realized that the program was heading into, uh, was not necessarily the best aligned for what I had wanted to do.

I had really gotten into the field of positive psychology, which was a field of psychology that really looked at [00:08:00] human potential. And optimal and how we can optimally thrive as human beings. Because traditional, uh, psychology was mostly focused on mental disorders and illnesses. Kind of like how medicine is more focused on disease, right?

So, so then I, I, I made a pivot and after a year in New York, I moved to California where I've ended up finishing my graduate degree. So that's a little bit of my. Global background where I traversed and lived in four countries over three continents. That's wild. I mean, yeah. Yeah. I mean, when people say you did all that, I can totally like understand where they're coming from.

'cause most of us, you know, as a species, most of people live at the same place for the majority of their lives. Um, so like I think your, your experience is so unique and. I mean, you should talk more about that. Like, this is so [00:09:00] fascinating, the continents, three continents. It's wild. Yeah. Um, so, you know, after California, and I know you, you didn't become an entrepreneur right away.

You did have like a corporate job. You moved to Portland and maybe share a little bit about what brought you into the c. Corporate world. And then what made you decide like, this is not for me, I'm gonna be my own boss? You know, it's really funny you asked that because I think as soon as I got my first corporate job, I realized it was not for me.

Um, you know, there's this funny thing when you mature, you start learning about more about your own. Body, your own heart. And you understand, you know, you understand better that your body gives you signals when something's not right. So I would remember that every time I would get into some kind of corporate project or walk into a corporate building or going to a physical location for an interview, something would happen [00:10:00] where my stomach would be in the knot and my heart and my chest would be heavy.

And at the time I used to, you know, I thought, okay, maybe I'm just nervous, I'm just anxious or whatever. But over the years. Of just growth and you know, learning how to be an adult. I realized that that actually was my gut signal telling me that it was not the right thing for me. Mm-hmm. I had that feeling every single time I went into something that added, ended up not being the right fit for me.

Wow. You know, and so now I'm, now I know that gut feeling very well and I listen to it very carefully, but that's a, that's a side note to what you were asking. So, you know, how did I end up in the corporate space? I think in many ways, you know, I set myself up to do that. I went into and got my master's degree in, in organizational psychology, which really was.

How do you apply the principles of psychology and how people function in businesses where people have to be around each other to complete a [00:11:00] mission or to work together, right? Mm-hmm. And I studied a lot around leadership and a lot of that was also very organizationally context kind of leadership. So it was almost like the natural.

Step of like, okay, if you're gonna get this degree, you're gonna study leadership, then you know you're gonna go into the corporate space to practice this, right? So that's kind of was like my transition or my entry into the corporate world. Now I didn't necessarily do what I studied right away. That came later on, but it, soon as I got the job, I mean, it wasn't anything about the job itself that was like, oh my gosh, this is a red flag.

Like it wasn't necessarily the job itself. I think there was something about the corporate culture where, where you. Couldn't be you. Mm-hmm. Like everyone had to, you know, wear a certain persona and I kind of had to learn it the hard way of how you behave, quote unquote, professionally at work and what, you know, learning about office politics.

Hmm. Also, my very first corporate job, like full-time corporate job was remote. So I was [00:12:00] remote first before anybody else was. So when 2020 came and everyone became remote. I was like, oh, I got this. I've been doing this for years. So I think, but I, but I think too, you know, as, as a reflect, as a reflection back, I think being remote first as your very first entry into a different professional arena was probably not the best idea.

Oh, I see. Yeah, because that what prevented you from like making human connections. Well, and also it does not teach you how to actually work. Now remember like up until then, I've only been a really good student. I knew how to do that right. Now. The workplace required different levels of accountability, different levels of presence, and different way of showing up, right?

Mm-hmm. The expectations are different. It's not about you sit, listen to the lecture and then you know. Do something and you know, see if you got it right. It's more of the, you know, the workplace is more of, okay, well here's the ask, and now you have to go and take the initiative to make it happen. Instead of always [00:13:00] asking for permission or always asking for review, you have to position yourself very strategically as you know what you're doing.

So it's a very different kind of mindset, and when you are remote. This is your first job, like real like corporate job. You don't, you don't get to see how other people behave. You don't have the visual role models. Right. And this was even before video calls, so all the meetings were over phone. You had to dial the phone, dial the code.

Yeah, I remember. Yeah. Huh. So I know, and I think you can hear my dog barking, so sorry about that. That's fine. Yeah. Okay. That's what happens when I work from home and I, you know, I work from home now, and this is just kind of like life in the background. But yeah, I knew right away that I, I thought I was, you know, I can't imagine myself retiring in the corporate space.

I, I don't know how to people do that, and there's no way that that could be me. And so I've always had this inkling that this is just not. It's just not me. It doesn't, and, and I, at the time, I couldn't articulate it. [00:14:00] And right now, and now I think it's because I just don't do well with people saying, well, this is how you have to do things and this is the only way you can do things.

Yeah. And by the way, to get it done, you need to ask 20 other people whether you got it right. Mm-hmm. And by the time you're done. With your own creation, you don't even recognize it anymore. I don't work that way. Yeah. You know? Yeah. I, I work off my creativity. I know how to create relationships, but I don't wanna be manipulative, I don't like trying to, you know, having to convince people and or other people trying to create relationships with me only to, you know, throw me under the bus.

I mean, a lot of the corporate culture Yeah, totally. Is very, when they say it's relationship based. It's more like it's political alliances based. Yes. Yeah. I, it's so interesting you say that. Like yesterday I was having coffee with, uh, someone who's been in the nonprofit space for a long time, and we were talking about like, yes, everything is about relationship, but I you having the right relationships, it's like.

Friendships, right? Like [00:15:00] family, relationships, community relationships, neighborhoods, et cetera. But when it comes to work and something that can have like consequences and. Like asking yourself, are you having, are you in the right room and are you having the right relationships? And, and that's kind of like sarcastic because to me the right relationships for certain people are something I entirely don't want.

It's like, like you said, it's the politics, it's everyone's agenda. Like, are you, mm-hmm. Are you aligned with those people politically? And that's just, yeah. It's interesting you said that. I was just talking about that yesterday with someone. Yeah, I mean, and this is the thing where, you know, I think what you and I can relate to is because, you know, uh, we both did the organizational corporate DEI work.

Mm-hmm. And one of the things that, you know, we talk about in [00:16:00] terms of creating equity and inclusion, and this came out especially around the 2020 era, because you have people who are remote and then you have people who are in the office and how do you manage? A team, uh, where you have a hybrid team, right?

Mm-hmm. And one of the things that you know, I would recommend leaders and coach leaders on is, uh, communication will either make or break that culture of a hybrid team. Because one of the things that I often see leaders do is that, you know, they go show up in a meeting, they make a decision, and then once they leave, then somebody pulls 'em aside and then they have a one-off.

And all of a sudden the leader now is thinking, huh, I didn't even think about this. So maybe let me make a different decision. And that never gets communicated. Mm-hmm. Or it just gets communicated, but off as more of an afterthought. And all of a sudden now the team is left thinking, we just went through a whole meeting where we came with X decision and now all of a sudden you have a.

Z decision because somebody had a one-off [00:17:00] conversation with you. That automatically creates a stacking order mm-hmm. Among the team. And the leader may not be aware that, that they're doing that in the moment, but you have to really consider every single decision and all the communication that you send out and how you communicate your decisions, because that is how you then create a culture where all of a sudden vote.

Remote teams feel like second class because they don't have that pro physical proximity. Totally. To pull you aside and say, Hey, I know we just decided this, but I really wanted to talk to you about this. You know, how do you. Create relationships and you know, with people on your team where you're not just favoring the ones that you see most often, because we know that that is also a very natural tendency for human beings, that whoever's in front of us mm-hmm.

Are also the most, um, prominent people in your mind. Yeah. They may not even be the best performers, so the highest potential, but because you see them often, you automatically associate them with a certain level of [00:18:00] familiarity. Yeah. Yeah. No, I totally agree. And a lot of leaders, uh, like you said, they're not doing that on purpose, but that as a result, that's what happens when, right?

Yeah. They could be moving fast and then they're like, okay, okay, I'll do, okay. Sure. And then they'll shoot off an email and say, Hey guys, thanks for the meeting. I know we did this, but you know what? I just had a second. I just had a quick conversation with, you know, Sarah, whoever, and you know, I think we should do this instead.

And the whole team's going. That was a waste of time. And also, I know now I don't trust you because whatever I suggest, I know you're gonna like override it because Sarah over there is, is is whispering in your ear? Yeah, totally. I have, I, I feel I have PTSD over Slack. It's because it was such like a, a, a, a dominant tool for remote teams, but I feel like it is actually very.

Confusing and um, kind of like, I don't know, I didn't like Slack because the way Slack conducted communication is just so [00:19:00] disorienting. And like you said, like it's about whoever gets in front of the boss or whoever is in charge more. Mm-hmm. And I feel Slack is. Um, undermining a lot of employees, uh, communications with leadership because it's so confusing and overwhelming.

Well, and well, so. I guess the intention behind Slack was, you know, some kind of communication community or portal, right? Mm-hmm. That really provides that, uh, democratization of communication across the organization. I think that's what the intention was, but what it also created were these one-off channels.

Mm-hmm. Right? Yes. That's oftentimes what happens is, you know, you this, that's where all the gossip happens. That's where all the political alliances are solidified. It's subversive and yeah, I don't, yeah, I didn't like, yeah, I didn't like it because. [00:20:00] Yeah, it becomes exactly a tool, uh, like becomes weaponized for, you know, political connections because it's like, oh, so and so, and I slack last night and this is, I know, know about, it's like now it's a bragging thing that we, you know, that if you and your leader can informalize your communication.

You're not just talking through email, you're slacking and making decisions over slack that gives it a different feel for how much they trust you and how much they wanna bring you into the fold. I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sorry if I kind of like threw a, a curve ball 'cause you No, that's, that's fine.

Yeah. Communications and I just had this like re like a, a memory back when I was using Slack with, um. Teammates and this one guy posted by accident, a private communication about me to the public slack. Mm. And I was like, oh, okay. Are they gonna say something? Or what is this? It's like, [00:21:00] oh, chaos. Yeah. Um, but anyway, um, bring this back.

Bring our conversation back. Yeah. So, um, at some point you became your own boss. Yes. And I can't remember exactly when, but maybe share your kind of like. What, what, what, what propelled you to make that decision and how are things doing? Um, or like going since you made that call? Yeah. So I think I've had the inkling to wanna have my own business for a really long time.

Mm-hmm. But, um, I just always had so much fear and I never boldly went for. You know, my own business. Like, you know, I, I try to, you know, do different things. I dabbled into what if I could make pies, you know? Yes. I even thought about, you know, having a pie business. Mm-hmm. Um, and I thought about, you know, just having my own shingle of being like, I'm an independent coach and that's why I went and got education and certification as a [00:22:00] coach.

Yeah. Um, so I thought about it a lot over the years, but the thing always came up for me was I get just. And a lot of this was also based on talking to other people who are independent. I just felt like, oh, like I, I don't wanna do the business part. Like that seems too hard, right? I don't wanna do the administration, I don't want the operations, can I, you know, I want a business where I could just practice, be a practitioner, and that didn't seem to be the reality or that wasn't realistic, how you run a business.

And so I was very. Discouraged by it also because I saw how my parents struggle as a kid. So a lot of those stories about my relationship with business and my skillset and potential were shaped by what I observe. And I told myself as a kid, I was like, I never wanna be in business because of how much I see.

My parents struggle all the time. And um, and it came to a point actually, I think, you know, slowly over the years, I mean 2020, there was a huge, I think, transformation moment where. I [00:23:00] got into a startup company. I went in with this idea of like, I really wanna prove myself, prove my worth, and this is the position that's finally gonna take me up the ladder where I would want to go.

Now mind you, even though in the beginning of my corporate career I knew I wasn't long for it, at some point I did start drinking the Kool-Aid, did start enjoying seeing myself grow. 'cause when you do see yourself grow and you see your path moving forward, it is very motivating to keep going, right? Sure.

Mm-hmm. And then, so in 2020, you know, we all know what happened. The, the pandemic came and you know, so many people lost their jobs. And I was one of those people who lost their job. And then all of a sudden I had this. Cold awakening where I had to question and ask myself, why am I putting my hopes and dreams onto an external entity that does not give a shit about me?

Right. Totally. Right. Yeah. So like I was banking on my future. I was banking on my career successes and my goals onto. An [00:24:00] organization onto the corporate area, onto these businesses that one day could just decide I'm an inconvenience. Mm-hmm. Or I'm too much of a cost, you know, spend So, and I, and I just thought to myself, it does not make sense that I would put such a big.

Part of my, of what I would want to achieve in life into somebody else's hands. Mm-hmm. And so that kind of started the, my thinking around, okay, how can I take more charge of my, and take more ownership of my career? It wasn't until maybe, I think two more companies that I finally decided, you know what, if I change company one more time, I'm just gonna still relive the same experiences.

Yeah. Now, my folks who are listening, you know, I always sat under the umbrella of hr even though my job was more specifically around leadership development. And so when you're in hr, you're, you're a cost center. Right. Yes. You know, and the, the op operations and leadership will never fully [00:25:00] see you as a partner and, um, and when you're sitting in a cost center, when you, it's, it can be very difficult to create.

Enterprise wide changes, um, without money. Like things cost money. I think sometimes, you know, people, leadership forget. They say, you know, you gotta do more with less. You gotta, you know, figure out how to, how to roll out this global program on $0. It's like. That's just not how it works. No. You know, so, and I often found myself in organizations where I felt handcuffed mm-hmm.

To very little resources. Um, I still was expected to make things happen. And then you're held accountable when they don't happen. Right. And then when you say, well, I don't have the resources, they just shake their head and still say, it's your problem. And so, you know, after several rounds of. Working with leaders who did not have the [00:26:00] empathy or the competence to lead the function, I realized that I was, I was wasting my talent.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You know, and again, sometimes it takes several years into your career to realize how talented you are and what strengths you have and what gifts you bring to the table. Um, and then you have to decide, do you. Where do you want to use them? And if you feel like you are in a place where they get wasted, don't wait around.

You know, you gotta take action, whether it's switching your environment or doing something different. And I left the corporate world about three years ago. And you know, a lot of people make it seem like, you know, as soon as you leave, you're gonna make money and get rich right away. And because people don't realize that this, this in of itself is starting new.

Um, not only am I starting new, uh, on a different model, right, instead of an employer employee model, I'm a self-employed model now. Mm-hmm. People don't realize the [00:27:00] transition to that in of itself has a huge learning curve. There's also the learning curve of having to unlearn your corporate ways. Totally.

You don't realize how much you've been indoctrinated with a lot of things from the corporate world that. Aren't real or just not realistic when you are and, and just don't apply once you run your own business. And, and then there's the element of learning how to actually be a business person and moving away from being a practitioner.

Mm-hmm. That part I think is the decision that lot, I don't see a lot of consultants and coaches make. Mm-hmm. I think they're just gonna hold up their shingle and this is, and, and they're just gonna have a business. But you need to decide, I think first of all. Do you want a lifestyle business or do you wanna actually build a company?

And those are two very different things. And so when I first left, I just, I, I did the former, I just put up my shingles and I'm just gonna be an independent consultant, independent coach, and take corporate clients. Um, and then soon after that, you know, I did really well the first year. You know, part of it's because I was so rooted in my [00:28:00] career.

Um, I. It. It didn't take much for me to tap into my network because they already knew me. They've seen me work. Right? Like I had years of just reputation building. Mm-hmm. But after a while, after the year of doing that, I realized I'm doing the exact same thing, like back when I was in corporate. Like nothing's changing except that I'm not on payroll.

Right. And I don't have benefits. Right. So if I'm going to step out completely, I might as well do something really bold and really big. And I made a pivot about last year. When I decided that instead of just being a con consultant for organizations, I really want to tap into my passion, which was elevating women into power, or elevating women and empowering them through their positions of power.

Mm-hmm. So that's been something I've wanted to do for a really long time. I found, you know, moments throughout my career where I could do that, but I said. After a year of being an independent, independent consultant, I said, you know what, if I'm, if I'm gonna be truly independent, if I'm truly gonna start a business, let me actually [00:29:00] do something that I, on my own terms.

Yeah. 'cause I felt like I was still trying to placate to the corporate world, and right now I've, I've shifted a lot. Not that I, you know, I still work with the corporate side mm-hmm. Of my business. Mm-hmm. But that part has, um. Has kind of, uh, that side of the business has shrunk dramatically just because I want to, I wanted to focus on the individual woman.

Mm-hmm. I love that. I, I think the kind of exploration and realization you are having over the years, gradually, I. I think it's really beautiful and really cool. Like you can kind of see that as a movie, right? Like when we build a character like where the road starts and then you progress and then it has a realization and then you continue to progress.

Yeah. It's like a, like a very beautiful, uh, build up. And I think my friend one time they were saying that, yeah, no, 'cause they were saying. [00:30:00] You know, if we are looking at like a person's growth as a piece of music, right? There is this kind of leading to eventually the cto, like mm-hmm. Right? Like you build up and then it becomes, uh, a symphony, right?

Yeah. So I feel like for you and many other. You know, wonderful leaders and women entrepreneurs. I feel we are all on this kind of like character building kind of like journey. Oh, absolutely. And then we are gonna hit that note and, mm-hmm. And I, I think it, I mean, by no means easy, like it sounds pretty cool, but like, it's so difficult.

Yeah. At the same time, it's such a beautiful experience to go through, you know, individually. Yeah. And together. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, when you look back on it, you, you do feel the sense of pride, and I think it's important, like you said, [00:31:00] too. Take a, take a look and just really be able to appreciate for what it is, you know?

Mm-hmm. Because you're living in it. Sometimes it's hard to see, like Totally. When I was younger I thought my life was completely normal, being surrounded by people from all over the world and you know? Mm-hmm. And knowing that that's actually not the common experience makes you also appreciate. Having the privilege and the opportunity to do that, right?

Mm-hmm. Because it, you know, gives you different kinds, different ways to learn when you have that kind of exposure. Yeah. It sets the foundation for sure. And you mentioned a couple things I think in our conversation so far, which I want to tap into. Sure. Is. Like earlier you mentioned when you were still, like in the cooperate world, every time you step into something, your body will give you, this would give you this signal that something is not right or something is wrong.

This kind of visceral feeling. Yeah. And right now, and just now, you said, you know, you want to tap into [00:32:00] this passion of yours and empower women, and that reminds me of something that's like bodily important for you is like Yes. Yes. And there's a lot things about embodiment. Mm-hmm. About, um, making ourselves physically stronger has something to do also with our leadership style.

Is this kind of like a body mind connection? Mm-hmm. I would love to invite you to talk about that journey, like your fitness Oh, I love that. Yeah. You are, you know, building your business. Yeah. I, I love that you opened that up because if anyone knows me now, they would know that fitness, physical fitness is a huge part of how I look at leadership, so.

Some. So one of the, I would say more the passive drivers for why I wanted to include fitness is because back in the corporate space, when I would talk about leadership or coach leaders on leadership, uh, [00:33:00] they focus on primarily the observable be behaviors, which while it's not in, you know, while it was not wrong, it was also incomplete.

And when you talk about mindset, when you tap into emotions or the physical that was seen as like. Like, oh yeah, that's extracurricular if we have time. Or I, or, and most of the time it's, you know, I don't have time. Just tell me what I need to do to deal with this difficult employee or, you know, manage upward so I can get my stuff done.

So a lot of it was just the help me solve the problem, but don't talk to me about me. Right. Um, and so fitness became a much more dominant. Force in how I look at leadership because of my own experiences with my body and fitness. So throughout my life I've always had very low self-image and you know, very poor body image.[00:34:00]

And when I think back, I think it was very parallel to also my own confidence. When I felt poorly about myself, about my body, it carried through in how I looked at myself and the stories I would tell myself because of how I would look or because of how, you know, I presented. Mm-hmm. Um, and it wasn't until after I had my daughter, which, you know, I mean, this is different for every woman, but you know, for, I, I, I'm in one of those women where pregnancy really like messed up our bodies in Mm.

Um. And I, and I was in this worst space mentally about my self image. And around the same time, I was also going through some kind of personal identity transformation that I talk a lot about in my current work now, because I all of a sudden was found myself in a space where I got another promotion. I just had the baby.

And [00:35:00] I'm dealing with all these life changes and professional changes, and all of a sudden I couldn't find myself being able to hold it all. And I thought there was something wrong with me, and I thought, I have all these things going for me. Why am I still feeling miserable? And I hid that on the inside because you know, again, as a woman, you can't really show the world.

That, you know, you're displeased. Mm-hmm. At least with our generation, I think it shows that like, oh, you're just not being grateful. Look at all the opportunities you got. Like, look at all this. Like, you should just be grateful. Right. Um, but I just still felt horrible. I felt miserable. I felt like I was duct taping everything together in my life.

I didn't, couldn't recognize my body anymore. And at some point I just, one day I just said, I am sick and tired of feeling. Sick and tired. I'm tired of feeling like I don't love myself and I wanna change that. So instead of, you know, trying to figure things out, I said, okay, I'm actually going to invest in a coach to help train me and help me with the food and all that.[00:36:00]

And it was hard, you know, it was, I'm not gonna say that it was easy, but looking back, I think, you know, some of it was a timing issue. But what I realized once I really got into fitness and I was able to. Create those changes for myself and also being able to be really strong at the gym. So I personally does always love being physically strong, but again, it's never considered feminine.

So I was always discouraged or made fun of for being strong, but I love being strong and when I, mm-hmm. You know. Having a coach who was all about the, you know, weight training, resistance training and weightlifting allowed me to tap into that part of myself that I really enjoyed. And once I was able to really do all that, I realized, oh my gosh, if I can overcome these physical weights.

Like there are physical obstacles that you have to try to lift or push or pull. Mm-hmm. If you can do this and you didn't think you can, what else could you accomplish that you've been telling yourself that you couldn't? So in a way, being able to tap into my [00:37:00] physical strength really helped. To nourish my mind to be more open, because if I can grow my body, that means I can grow myself mentally.

And so that means I needed to explore and peel back the layers. How else have I been limiting myself? Not just physically, but also mentally? If I'm gonna take radical accountability, over my health, over my physical embodiment of me.

Then I need to also take full accountability. Accountability and ownership of my mindset and my approach. And so that kind of started this whole transformation of me as a person and. I am like a self-development junkie. You know, like this is why I'm in the field of coaching, because I think that the greatest thing that you could really ever do, your greatest project is you.

There's no at, at no point could you say, I'm done [00:38:00] developing, I'm done involving. Mm-hmm. You may come to a place where you can say you are resting and you are enjoying what you've come to. Mm-hmm. But to say that you've reached the pinnacle. Of development and that you, there's nothing else for you to learn.

I think that's a lie. Yeah, I agree. You know, or excuse. Yeah. Or an excuse. Right. Um, and we see that a lot. And it's really funny because it's always the folks who have the most responsibility, who feel like they don't need it. Because back in the corporate space would often say, okay, what about our CEO? Are they getting coaching?

Because when they talk about our managers getting coaching, our leaders getting upskilled. Okay, what about them? Mm-hmm. And they're like, no, no, we don't need that. Why? Because you have a VP in front of your name because you are title is CEO. Yeah. That means you need to do so much more because I agree. So much hinges on you.

Yeah. I mean, a lot of people don't really, uh, understand the difference between responsibility and accountability. Yeah. Like CEOs and the C title people, [00:39:00] they know they have a lot of responsibility, but they don't necessarily know how to hold themselves accountable. Oh, so true. So I feel maybe that's one reason a lot of them don't feel like they need coaching because they feel like, oh, I have so much to do, like I need to go do those.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. , I. Um, so you, I, I love that story. I think it taught, it speaks so much to, again, the mind body connection mm-hmm. That a lot of us would like to address more these days. And again, you mentioned earlier is you love being strong. Mm-hmm. Growing up you were told it's not very fan feminine and it was discouraged.

Mm-hmm. And I also want to call that out is like these days we talk about mind body connection. Yeah. Often talk about, um, go take a walk or go do yoga or [00:40:00] go dancing. And those are all great. Mm-hmm. But we don't really associate our mind body through like a fitness lens. Yeah, like Musclely being strong mm-hmm.

Is actually really good for our mind and help us be like open-minded, um. So, yeah, I just want to comment on that 'cause it hasn't been talked about very much. And again, like we talk about being a smart girl, we talk about being, you know, a clever girl. Yeah. But we don't talk about being a strong girl.

Definitely not in the physical sense. Right. I think it's only been recent where mm-hmm. Strength women ha has really become popular and I think the, statistically the number of women that are starting to do weight training has grown exponentially. Mm-hmm. So I love that. And also on the flip side, the whole nineties, um, you know, skinny trend is also back, which saddens me because I [00:41:00] think there's also something very psychological when you tell women that they have to be as skinny as possible, that they need to shrink themselves to size zero.

So when you're doing that, you're basically telling them to shrink their minds. Yeah, because you can't think expansively, you can't think of yourself in an expansive way. Expansive. Not expensive. Mm-hmm. You can't think through growth when you're trying to shrink yourself. Exactly. And like physically, if we're size E zero, there's no way we can fight a predator like we gonna, someone protects us.

Well that, and also guess what, a lot of women who are our peers, I mean, in about 10 years or less, maybe five, depending on your genetics, you're gonna get into perimenopause. And guess what? One of the number one ways that women get injured as they get older is osteoporosis. Like, we are at risk for that so much more.

Guess what's not sexy? Guess what's not cute? Osteoporosis. You know? Mm-hmm. If you [00:42:00] can't bend down. To pick up your a hundred dollars bills. That's not sexy. You know, if you are walking around with brain fog, if you can't make a clear decision, if you don't know how to protect your own boundaries because you do, 'cause you no longer have that kind of standard for yourself because you've been shrinking yourself or because you are just not.

Emotionally or cognitively regulated because you have not been physically feeding your brain. Mm-hmm. Guess what? That's not cute either. No. And it's so dangerous and I, I mean, I don't mean to make our conversation like a health advocacy kind of thing, but I do think it is really important for our listeners to.

Really recognize the, the danger of not being healthy and strong, like Oh, absolutely. Yeah. It's very, it's very scary and we see so many successful [00:43:00] women leaders and celebrities selling weight loss drugs that really like, oh, he kills. Yeah, I mean it's back, right? We see all the celebrities, they all look gned and shriveled and you know, they look hollowed out and like, that's back now, you know?

And so my message to women is, especially if you are a millennial or older, like we've been through this, let's not do this again to our bodies because. That's left us with lingering eating disorders or disordered eating, which are two different things actually. Yeah. Oh. Um, but yeah, so eating disorder is, is more of a mental health disorder where you actually are diagnosed.

Disordered eating really speaks to having kind of a dysfunctional relationship with food. Gotcha. Where you feel like, okay, if I don't eat today, then that means I can binge later for my Thanksgiving meal. Like that is actually an example of disordered eating because your relationship with food is like.

Plus minus and then trying to negotiating. Yeah. You're trying to negotiate rather than looking at food as this is what I need to [00:44:00] fuel myself. Mm-hmm. If you are a leader, if someone is counting on you, it is your job to make sure that you have the brain capacity, you have the physical capacity to deliver and to.

Meet your responsibility to the people who are looking up to you and depending on you. So when you deprive yourself of that fuel, you are basically sending the message that I can run on empty, and I'm gonna try to give you my second best because I'm not feeling my best. Hmm. I really love that message. I really hope people actually listen to messages like these.

It's so important for women and women leaders to actually take care of ourselves. Um, so thank you for that. Um, absolutely. Yeah. And as we kind of like, um, going into the later part of our conversation, I know you have a lot of like offerings, um Yeah. From your practice. And you mentioned earlier [00:45:00] to me you have trainings, assessments, and webinars.

Talk about those. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, actually I'm doing my next webinar in about five minutes. So I run my webinars pretty frequently. Um, and so. So there's a couple ways for you to engage with me. Of course, I have a coaching program. If you're interested in that, you can contact me. But one of the ways that I think that can really help people think about if they are even in the space to need coaching.

So I have an assessment that helps you to figure out where you may be draining your power. Whether, whether it's through your mindset, your body, or your leadership expression. Right. And those are like how you show up in front of people. That's what I mean by leadership expression. So you can take that assessment, it's free, and in like less than three minutes, you'll figure out where you may be needing to, you know, pay more attention to, or maybe where you are really, really strong.

And if you're curious about. Me diving deep into that topic of draining power and what you need to do. I mean, some of it is kind of like what we've been talking about. I do this webinar pretty [00:46:00] frequently. Like I said, I'm doing it in a few minutes and it's around the three patterns that got you here that made you successful, but are now costing you everything.

Okay? And that's not just a clickbait title. It is. Um, I talk a lot about how, you know, we need to rise to the person we need to become mm-hmm. Rather than staying in our old identity and old patterns and old behaviors to try to do something new and try to grow. Mm-hmm. So there, there's that webinar and you, you can find all that.

Um. Instagram in my bio, I talk a lot on LinkedIn, so you ca if you catch me on LinkedIn or Instagram, those are two places I share a lot of my free content as well as, you know, giving, giving you kind of like the news updates on, on the next, um, offerings and things like that. Um, but yeah, I'm also, I'm, I'm very much an open book, so if anyone wants to just have a chat with me and they, you know, they, uh.

Are just curious about like, what's going on or whether maybe coaching is, you know, good for them. [00:47:00] I, I usually am a very open book and I will, I'm very willing to have conversations with people, especially if they are very serious about trying to do something for self-improvement, whether that's with me or on their own or somebody else.

It, it's not the objective of, you know, the conversation. It's more of, okay, you're taking the first step. Let me be the space for you to do that. Mm-hmm. I love that, and thank you. I will make sure to have all the information posted so people can find you and work with you. And I, I didn't know you have a webinar just right after two minutes, so Yes.

Um, I, I guess we have to wrap up and, um, thank you so much, Wendy, today for your time. Yeah. Yeah, it's so cool, and I would love to catch up with you in person maybe. Yes. Let's do, yeah, let's do so. And also, you know, if, if there's any parts that you know, your audience feels like, oh, we should dive into a little more, we can all, you know, happy to come back and dive deeper in any one of those topics we touched on.

I would love [00:48:00] that. And let's put a pin on it and Okay. Um, thank you so much, Wendy. I'll talk to you soon. Yeah. Okay. Talk to you soon. Thanks for having me. Okay, yeah. Good luck. Thanks everybody. Okay. Thank you. Bye bye. .