"10 years later, I feel like I really understand what it takes to run a business", with Alexis Braly James, on Facilitating Hard Conversations, Alignment, Public Speaking, and Take Play Seriously.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: [00:00:00] All ready. Uh, welcome everyone to the Intersection podcast and I have today I have a very kind of long time. A friend and colleague and peer and I, I feel I've known her for a very long time. Today we have Alexis Braley, James founder, and CEO of, , construct the presence. , A consulting company in Portland that started in 2015.

We were just talking about it. It's been 10 years. Um, I would love to invite, uh, Alexis to introduce herself and, um, I'm very, I just wanna put it out first, is that one of the first panels I have ever done in my life as a consultant. Was actually with you and it was during COVID, [00:01:00] so it makes me very happy to have you on today.

So welcome Alexis.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: Oh, thank you. Well, hello listeners. Um, my name is Alexis Brawley James and I'm the founder of Constructive Present. And it's funny being on a podcast. I've been on a couple recently. Um, 'cause I use. To not like to listen to them. I thought, why would anybody wanna just listen to someone talk for an hour? um, more recently since I've started painting and um, doing art, it's nice to listen to a podcast 'cause you don't have to watch anything or have your hands. So hopefully I can bring that entertainment to folks and some knowledge while they're painting or driving or, you know, washing the dishes.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Oh, I love that. That's exactly how I consume podcasts is when I walk my dogs and doing chores.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: Yeah. Yeah. Hands free.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Yes. Um, and I really want to maybe go back a little bit. Like we [00:02:00] mentioned, you know, a big shout out for 10 year. Uh, in the business in consulting, and I feel for Portland, that's actually a really long time, um, especially for equity and inclusion consulting services. Uh, and also you are a B Corp, um, which, you know, added another layer to it as well.

So I would love to invite you to go down the memory lane with us and share, you know, the beginning of the story.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: Yeah. Um, I think I was telling you, one, I can't believe it's been 10 years. Um, it's like the equivalent of having a third grader or, um,

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: know.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: senior dog, know. But, um, there I was also saying that for me. It wasn't necessarily a on off switch with my business. Um, I was a solo entrepreneur or, uh, I had a side hustle

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Hmm.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: very long time.

And I think about [00:03:00] my business as its own entity, it started in 2017 for me. So that 2015 to 2017 was me just picking up, um. Independent contracts doing one-off trainings or partnering with other folks, um, under a sole proprietor. And so it's really how I. Got a sense of it. Um, and I have been facilitating.

So a large part of what my business does is facilitate hard conversations and make them easier. And I actually have been facilitating, if you can believe this, since I was 15. So, um, when I was a. Sophomore in high school I was charged with a Measure 11 crime in Washington County and had to go through this youth program it at the time, and I'm still really close with my mentor, John Ashford, so shout out John Ashford.

He just retired from Multnomah County.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: cool. Congratulations.[00:04:00]

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: he's been doing the work, but he led that program and. It was in a lot of ways my first introduction to equity work, but also to how you change behavior through really, um, thoughtful facilitation. Uh, we did things in that program. It was, um, four Saturdays and four Tuesday evenings, and we watched. Um, movies like American History X, which talked about racism and violence, and we talked and we watched Menace to Society and we did group activities where we had to problem solve and think outside the box. Um, and I loved the program so much that I came back as a youth facilitator

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Oh, cool.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: for almost three years until I was a sophomore in college and didn't have capacity for that anymore. Um, but it was. The seed that was planted for me to really focus on facilitation and, and facilitating hard conversations. 'cause essentially that program [00:05:00] that I was in when I started, we were all first time offenders. We had all been charged with violent crimes. and this was essentially a. Alternative to prison.

And so he was taking these young people and putting us through these really thoughtful conversations and perspectives to change the way we saw the world. And it 1000% changed me. I think I came in, you know, if you were to meet 15-year-old Alexis, I was really angry. There was a lot of tough. Things happening in my home

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Mm-hmm.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: and I was internalizing them and then externalizing it at school where I felt like I had control and power.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Mm-hmm.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: And that could have led me down a very different path. And so that pivot moment really shifted me to, um, a justice orientation and wanting to learn about my people and, um, systems and, um, education. So fast forward, I [00:06:00] suppose, um, through college I continued facilitating. I was an orientation leader, I was a resident assistant. A lot of that is facilitating and working with students. And then I was a teacher.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Mm-hmm.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: and that for me was a really amazing opportunity. And I had this heavy weight of student loans. So being a teacher, a classroom teacher, you know, I never took summers off. I taught summer school to make a little bit of extra money.

I even, um, bartended in the evenings, um, to pay down my student loans. And it wasn't until I became. An administrator that it really helped me spur into thinking from an entrepreneurial lens,

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Mm.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: like what would it look like? Maybe I don't need to be an educator until I retire. Because,

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Right.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: at the time when I became a teacher, that was the path is you became a teacher, you got pers,

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Yeah.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: um, and you worked until you retired.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Mm-hmm.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: And then oftentimes became a [00:07:00] substitute. But for me, I wanted something a little bit more, I wanted bigger, broader impact,

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Mm-hmm.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: starting my business really gave that to me. So I started teaching or facilitating and working with just educational organizations. Then from there, um, there's community partners in education buildings, and so then I started working with nonprofits and then, um, working with nonprofit boards, I got. Clients who were from the for-profit space. so today, in 2025 Construct, the present predominantly works with education institutions, not-for-profits and for-profit companies. And our sweet spot is because we do workplace training, the focus is on that have at least 10 employees. Um. And then if the way we work with organizations that don't have 10 employees is we have, um, self-driven learning [00:08:00] that's both online and reflection journals. Okay.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Oh, I have seen your journals. They look cool.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: Oh, thanks. We have a really amazing graphic designer. Shout out Olivia,

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Yay.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: who wants to contact her, she's amazing. Everything you see is her visual. Um, manifesting my dreams.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Wow. It's so cool to have partners like that. Mm-hmm.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: the thing that has really. Help me sustain my business and, and mostly I work with just really amazing women, women of color. I try, I am intentional about where I spend. The businesses funds

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Hmm.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: partner with, because typically of color were the least funded, least supported, and the biggest pay gap. And so, um, I'm really lucky to be surrounded by our web developer is a black woman. Our graphic designer is a black woman. I partner with Cynthia, who I

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Yeah.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: [00:09:00] So it's a great community.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned, uh, Cynthia, because she was talking about mentorship on this podcast earlier, and I think your journey with the, um, facilitation experience before, that's such a strong kind of like, uh, example, like what good mentorship could look like, literally changing people's lives, so.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: Yeah. I'm, I am. I love that she's leaning into that. I think we need more. Training and understanding on how to be a good mentor. So hire Cynthia.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Yes. Hi Cynthia. Um, I thank you for the story. I mean, it has so many layers and contacts into it, and I really appreciate your transparency. Here. And, um, I also want to talk about, um, [00:10:00] you know, as a business operator and business and owner, we all know it's not easy. Like we talk about the spirit of entrepreneurship, we talk about the adventures, we talk about excitement, et cetera.

Uh, but oftentimes we don't talk about. The, the hardship we face, the challenges we have to go through, or even just weird, you know, administrative, bureaucratic kind of system, navigations. We don't talk about that very much. Um, so I want to invite you to talk about, um, perhaps some iterations of your business over the years, if there's any, and maybe.

Um, I really want folks out there who are also entrepreneurs, e especially small business owners, to learn from. Um, from your experience, if you're open.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: Oh yeah. Yeah. I think, um, that was the most surprising thing [00:11:00] about, um. Having a business

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Hmm.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: is, I really thought I would just be learning more about my craft, you know, about how to teach, how to change behavior, how to integrate systems. But 10 years later, I feel like I really understand what it takes to run a business like ILI know more about p and ls and balance. And financial modeling I ever, like if you had asked me 10 years ago, I'd be like, oh no, someone else is gonna do that for me. But now I can, you know, even today I have like a recession plan. I have three different financial plans depending on the way the market goes. And so that's been a nice. Um, I'm a learner, so anytime I get to learn new things is exciting to me. But thinking about construct the present when I, so when I first started, right, it's a side hustle and I'll take any kind of work, anything that will get me practice that I feel aligned with. And I did that for many years. And, um. It was [00:12:00] really fun. I got to try a bunch of different things and I think I, my business started to mature.

The first iteration, I would say was probably 20 18, 20 19, where it became clear that I couldn't do everything I really needed to specialize. so, um, I started at that time, every year I do an annual retreat for myself where I just, um, for New Year's. Spend some time journaling about my goals and what I wanna see in the next year.

And so for my business, I really wanted to think like, what are the, if I were to distill my business into three pillars, three columns, you know, like a three-legged stool, what would be those legs? And a nice number, because it's easy to remember. Um, it's simplified. And where I landed was training. Strategic implementation, which is pretty much systems, that's project based work. [00:13:00] and then audits. 'cause audits were really my first service doing equity audits because I could do them synchronistically. I didn't have to, you know, I could teach during the day and then I would read data, do interviews in the evening. and I, so I wanted to keep that because. I love a spreadsheet and audits are very much data driven, and so that was the first iteration. I would say the first change is going from I'll do anything no matter what, to really aligning around training, strategic implementation and equity audits,

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Hmm.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: and then deepening my vision that whatever I do has to serve black women.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Hmm.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: so. The organization needs to either have black women in place or needs to serve black women through their services or that, you know, I wouldn't necessarily work with a client that well. I definitely wouldn't work with a client that was like, [00:14:00] these products or these services are not for black women.

That just wouldn't be a good fit

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: Also during that time, I started to refine my client onboarding process of how to make sure that clients were aligned to me. So, because I. Alignment in the beginning makes a project a lot smoother. I had had a few different interactions where working with clients, I didn't really vet them, I just assumed they had good intentions and were committed to doing their own work.

And me being a black woman and offering insight or um, expertise would oftentimes. I don't, they were being mean to me. trying to be polite, but

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Oh God, I'm sorry.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: they, I know they would just, you know, be undermine my thinking or they would question me or they'd be like, where did you get that from? Or, how do you know that? And I'm like, what do you [00:15:00] mean you hired me to do this

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Yeah.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: Were you just thinking I would tell you what you wanted to hear?

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Hmm.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: so that was when I needed to revise my client onboarding process and really looked at what is the evidence of someone committed to this work? And then how do I have that conversation in the discovery call and through the proposal, and then pay attention to, um, the signs.

Because typically if there's tension in the beginning of a relationship.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Mm-hmm.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: It doesn't necessarily resolve in a client relationship. That's what I've learned. So, hot take, hot tip.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: I think that's so good to know, and I agree with you. I definitely worked with, uh, clients who are not. Uh, so aligned with my values and the, like, my ways of thinking. And I recently talked to, uh, interviewed a guest who really prioritizes alignment as well. And I feel like really it's just about [00:16:00] you have to have, you have to vibe you kind of vibe.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: Especially with the consultant client, like there's probably a lot of businesses, you know, you don't necessarily need to vibe with, um, the person selling you shoes or, you know, it's like a less intimate relationship, but. The consultant relationship is a very intimate one. Like with my clients, we become friends. I know about their children, I know about their family. Um, I know when something good happens. I know when something hard happens and

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Mm.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: I really love that part of my job. But that does make sure, it does mean that we need to vibe and we need to be aligned. And it doesn't mean we always have to agree, but we certainly have to respect each other.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Yeah, I mean that's part of the, uh, I'm guessing that's part of your kind of facilitation role as well is to be able to facilitate hard conversations [00:17:00] respectfully. Like how can we do that? So that's your first or second iteration, right?

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: Yeah, I would say, uh, second 'cause that really landed in 2020. 'cause I was

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Oh, yeah.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: work that we called diversity equity inclusion before 2020. The people who did the work at that time, you were super committed because there was more resistance to it than there was ease. And so if you were hiring a consultant to do that work, you um, were rooted in it.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Mm.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: in 2020 with the external pressure this. A white awakening. Everybody was searching for consultants and

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Yeah.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: in the industry for longer than most people, I got a lot of inquiries that were people just looking to check a box or

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Hmm.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: to be able to put something on their website.

It was a lot of corporate clients that didn't [00:18:00] have the, they hadn't paused to reflect on the why they were in a reactionary. Um, posture from George Floyd and Lot Aubrey and Breonna Taylor. And so that's where I started to create an intake form and do discovery calls and send proposals, all kind of before I would get on any kind of deep conversation with folks.

'cause before I used to meet with people, um, up to an hour just to hear what they were thinking and see if it could align with the work or to see if I could. Fit it within one of my pillars of service. I had to stop doing that because

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Yeah.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: was doing maybe 10 discovery calls a day 2020 to 2021. And so I needed a way to coal that down to essentially create barriers for people who weren't really committed. And then we fast forward to 2025 and it's. Uh, a, a whole new world. You know?

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Yeah.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: [00:19:00] external pressure. The opposite

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Mm-hmm.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: There's actually external pressure that is telling people not to do diversity, equity, inclusion work, not to talk about race, not to talk about sexuality. And so now I'm re-imagining how to support the people who want to keep doing it while also being mindful of this sea change and keep people safe.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Hmm. Maybe talk more about the safety part. What do you mean to keep people safe?

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: Yeah. 'cause I think, um, when you hear the national conversation, you know, there's one perspective that DEI work is problematic because it gives people of color, women and folks, um, from gender, minorities, preferential treatment that's unwarranted. And then on the other side. maybe or the opposite side would be, no, we need to keep talking about it.

It's more important. It should, it's more important than ever. It should be integrated into [00:20:00] everything you do. And I think that's a, a misrepresented spectrum because I think there's a whole nother spectrum that exists where people of color, women and folks who identify as L-G-B-T-Q are tired of having the conversations at work and them, they not resulting in change. Um, met for five years, especially, um, from 2020 to 2025. Every organization had some sort of program that taught about racism, taught about sexism,

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Hmm.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: taught about, um, trans and homophobia, and then still leadership didn't change. Still promotions didn't happen. Still, the ex day-to-day experience did not change for those identities. And so those people are also tired of the way DEI is currently. And so there's this Venn diagram that I think about that. There are a lot more people tired of the status quo than [00:21:00] our want to continue. And so rather than resisting the opportunity to shift the narrative, I think now is a great time to take the words diversity, equity, inclusion, and put into the fabric of our workplace interactions.

So what my business has been pivoting to is instead of talking about. The headline is not racism. homophobia, or, um, you know, microaggressions necessarily, or, um, systemic racism. Instead, the headline is navigating culture. And within the conversation of how we navigate culture, we're talking about the ways that systemic racism play into that, how we view different perspectives and what people look like when they bring up something that feels confrontational.

Who is considered confrontational. Um, when we talk about conversation, like giving feedback or leading inclusively, those [00:22:00] are the headlines. And then within that are the ways that sexism, racism, homophobia, transphobia, interplay within those skills. So it's moving from an identity-based topics to skill-based topics.

And my hope is that. what I'm seeing, it's, it's not a hope anymore. 'cause we've launched it and been doing it, is that everybody can engage in that conversation at a level that feels safe for them. That they don't have to be put on the spot to present an alternate opinion or to be adversarial because everyone wants to navigate conflict better. And everyone has work to do to do that. That's just one example. Um, so that has, that is my most recent pivot.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: That's a really good example, and I totally agree. I feel like we. Um, I think the part of the kind of polarization of equity and diversity work is, um, people feel like we are pit against each other. It's [00:23:00] like fo like finger pointing, things like that. And like, like you said, identity based, right? Like people feel like, uh, why are you attack attacking me?

Right? Like, people take you so personally, but if you remove that kind of like, um, not necessarily the emotion part, but like. To put things into perspective and make it skill-based. I think that makes it a little bit easier to digest or even receive this kind of education. I really, yeah, that really resonates with me.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: And the safety piece for me is that, um, right now, you know, we're seeing ice. Kidnap our

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Mm-hmm.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: and family and to have conversations where we're asking people to out their experience could potentially put them at unnecessary risk. 'cause it is them sharing identity, their origin story in a training essential to the skill that we're building. And [00:24:00] I, I, I have shifted in my perspective that no. should be able to engage at the level that they feel, and

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Mm. Mm-hmm.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: for a lot of different reasons that they don't wanna disclose

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: their race, their gender, their sexuality. if we can focus on the immediate action that we're expecting, then we can hold people accountable.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Mm. Well, I think that really indicates your, um, kind of skills in facilitation, right? Like you have you, because you have to contain the room. Like you have to navigate, you have, oh, speaking of which. Um, so thank you for sharing that example, first of all, and I, I hope folks out there who are also doing consulting work or want to do better, uh, are taking notes.

Uh, speaking of facilitation, I want to talk about something fun is you are seeing.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: Oh yeah. Yeah, that's [00:25:00] been, so I'm Mc, I've, I've been MCing a little bit, so facilitating, right. I've been doing since I was 15. So if you do the math, I'm 25. No. Um, been doing it for a long time, but I always have been nervous about speaking, so just doing like a 15 minute speak. or webinar or, um, keynote feels different to me than facilitating. 'cause for some reason, in my mind, facilitation feels like a conversation. And, uh, a keynote or a webinar feels to me like I'm supposed to have all the answers.

And anytime I'm supposed to have all the answers, my body gets a little bit nervous. And so for the last four years, my professional development goal has been, get better at speaking just. Step into it. You know, I did um, hr. I've done, um, some keynotes at conferences and recently I started doing [00:26:00] MCing because I feel like it's a great way to get better at speaking.

But again, I don't have to have all the answers.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Right.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: vibe curator in a sense, and so I MCed the be local PDX. Build conference and then in two weeks I am MCing taste for equity. Our gala seeds becoming and. I know I'm gonna be nervous because that is a community that I've poured so much into and everything this year, stepping into the steering committee chair and I'm like writing my speech and then I'm making edits and then I'm writing it, and then I am like trying to balance being warm and celebratory a moment of pure chaos.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Yeah. Wow. That is actually pretty hard to do, especially right now.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: Mm-hmm.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Yeah. Um, if you don't mind, um, I know you've been very involved into [00:27:00] community work and you said you are more involved with a taste of equity, but that's a, there's an organization behind it, right? Like, would you mind talking more about it?

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: Yeah, so Taste for Equity has been around since 2019. It was founded by Collie Lad and Jo Richie, and really focused on centering. Chefs and wine makers who identify as black, indigenous Asian, um, Latino and L-G-B-T-Q. And it has grown and evolved, um, into a nonprofit organization that is fueled by 50 plus volunteers. The structure is there's a governing board, and then there is a steering committee, which leads the event planning and execution. And then next year, actually, if folks are listening to this, they might be hearing this for the first time, we're opening an [00:28:00] opportunity accelerator, really thinking about how do we support black, indigenous, black, brown, and indigenous L-G-B-T-Q. Business leaders in the food industry in helping them either scale or get the resources that they need. So we're actually expanding our work, aside from events to deepen it into a business accelerator.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: That is so exciting.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: It is all my favorite things. You know, I love helping communities of color, um, and queer communities, and I love food.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Yes,

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: tell people I never miss a meal. You know, I never,

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: probably good advice.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: and Portland is the perfect place for it. We have such amazing food, so many variations, so it's really feeding my soul in a way that. My consulting work just doesn't, in the same [00:29:00] way,

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Yeah, I get that. I think, you know, when you are in community with like-minded folks and it's not. It's a relational, like you are not doing that for money. You are doing that. You know, it's, uh, how do I say it? It's, uh, it's, it's a way of giving.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: Yeah. Yeah, it, I do. I would encourage anybody, I do this anyways, but people should join boards.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Yeah. I agree.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: there's so many nonprofits. I think we have more nonprofits per capita than any other state.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Really.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: There's an opportunity to hone different

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Mm-hmm.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: like especially for me with taste for equity in my business and construct the present.

I'm the final say and obviously I listen to, um, my colleagues and, um, partners and teammates. But ultimately I do what I want, you know? But

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: hear that.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: yeah. Yeah. But with Taste for Equity, it's allowed me to really flex a muscle of being part of an executive [00:30:00] leadership team, which I haven't been in a long time. so our team, because everything we do is rooted in equity and centering these particular perspectives, we have a lot of conversations and we don't always agree. And nobody has the opportunity or can't like pull a No, I have the final say. I have to, I get to call it. We, so we have these long, thoughtful conversations and at times filled with tension around the decisions we make.

And it's really strengthened my re my resolve for equity and also giving me a level of flexibility that I think I had lost from being a entrepreneur, um, CEO for so long.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Hmm. Y Yeah, I resonate with that as well. Um, I think if, when folks have the capacity, really consider either volunteering, you know, in, be in a committee, even if you're not on the board being a committee, join a board. [00:31:00] Um, I, I honestly, I think for most nonprofit organizations, they really appreciate their volunteers.

Because

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: Hmm.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: they wouldn't exist without all the volunteers, either a committee member, a event volunteer, or like a board member. Um, I, like you mentioned Alexis, in times like this, like a very challenging time. If, if we don't, if we don't allow ourselves to be in community, then it gets dicey very quickly.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: Yeah, and I think that that has been the strategy of the C sitting administration is to create fear so that people retreat into their homes alone. And I think the. Thing that I keep having to remind myself is we get through this together, we

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Yeah.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: community, we change in [00:32:00] relationship. Um, at times it can be easier to do things alone, as in, um, smoother.

But that quote always stands out to me of like, if you wanna go fast, go alone. If you wanna go far, go together. And I'm trying to go far.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: You have come very far.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: To go.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Oh.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: I, I was, um, talking, uh, I have a coach, um, and a therapist that I meet with every other week, alternating. And um, the current president was elected and it felt like all those executive orders came out and. There was, the narrative really started to be very anti-black to me. I, I fell into this really deep depression and sadness and I was talking to my therapist and she was like, you know, what is most upsetting about this right now? And I was [00:33:00] like, well, it just feels like if my job is to end racism, I'm doing a terrible job. And she was like, funny now, but in the moment it was very profound to me. She was like. Oh, honey, you thought your job was to end racism. And I was like, yeah, why did it, that's my job. Like what? Where's the ego in that?

That I could somehow, even in collaboration with many smart people, that's probably not gonna happen. And it was a resetting for me that obviously I, it's a goal to work towards, but it may not be one that I see in my lifetime. And so how am I making every interaction, whether big or small, be one? An act of resistance?

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Yeah, I, I think it's a good, uh, goal for humanity.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: Yeah. Yeah. But [00:34:00] I don't, Alexis isn't gonna single handedly do it. And I was feeling like I had single handedly failed.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: No,

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: I

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: no.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: you. I

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Um.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: at that time. I, I got lots of hugs.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Well, I, I mean, I'm not, you know, a therapist, but I wanna say from my perspective, you have not failed. You have succeeded in so many ways.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: Oh, thank

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Um, yeah. So I really want to talk about, um, this other thing. I do think is re very, very relevant to our world, um, both professionally and outside of work, is that, uh, the importance and the role of, um, playing and taking play seriously.

Um, I think that's. That's even more important now, and um, and I know you have been prioritizing, um, [00:35:00] playing and, you know, active resting. Um, and I want to invite you to talk about your kind of take on, um, taking play seriously.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: Yeah. I think I'm definitely inspired by Tricia Hersey's work

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Me too.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: rest is resistance and I, I'm a, a recovering workaholic. You know, I would work and work and then when I was done working as a hobby, I would work some more, you know, I'd have a side hustle or I'd have some other distraction. And it was really taking me away from feeling my feelings and being present in my body. And, um, two or three years ago, I've stopped counting. My mom passed away and I was no longer able to distract myself with busyness because everything I was doing was, um. Making me more sad.[00:36:00]

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Yeah.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: just nothing that could really interrupt my sadness. And so I, I began to really reconsider what it would look like to have hobbies that were not in service of capitalism, that were not in service of making money.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Mm-hmm.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: And so I've dabbled with all kinds of things and the thing that has stuck is painting. Um, it. Both. with watercolor, but I actually prefer acrylic and acrylic. The reasons I prefer it is it's very forgiving. If you make a mistake, you can just paint over it, which you can't do with watercolor. If anybody's painted with watercolor, you can just wait for acrylic to dry and then paint over it. You also can play with the texture, so it's not just the paint, but it also, the way that it dries can, has a feeling to it and, and. Creates shadows, which I really like, and you have to be patient. You can't rush the process. You have to really [00:37:00] work with it and move slowly and so through working on in with the medium acrylic. I have been able to slow down, and it also allows my mind to wander,

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Hmm.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: and I feel my feelings and I can be present in my body, and I notice when there's something that's off. Whereas when I was just always on the go and moving and filling my calendar and not wanting to be alone with myself, essentially I felt disconnected from my feelings and not very present. so being silly, you know, I. life when I was very young was so serious and everything felt life or death, or you know, it meant whether we had our needs met or didn't. Now that I feel like I'm in a safe space, both I and physically, I like to be playful and [00:38:00] crack jokes and not take things too seriously and not take things. Not take myself too seriously.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Hmm.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: through that, it's been like leaning into childish childishness. You know, like when I walk my dog, I don't take my phone or I put my phone away and we're just present and we play fetch and we, um, notice squirrels and bunnies and things and, whimsy. I think

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Hmm.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: Word. uh, on social media, you see people say like, oh, romanticize everything. And I think really what they're talking about is that whimsical ness of being present and really appreciating Like right now in the fall with the leaves changing, gorgeous.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: it's beautiful.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: painting everywhere. I'm just in awe that. All the things we've done as humans to mess with the earth and and hurt the planet, we still get to enjoy this transitional [00:39:00] beauty. What a time to be alive.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Isn't that weird? I, I feel like every day I walk my dog, um, he doesn't always appreciate it. Of course.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: No.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: But every day our neighborhood is different because of the, the foliage.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: Mm-hmm.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: There are changes every day, even like morning and afternoon. 'cause I remember a couple days ago, it was very windy and I'm like, uh, the, this tree had leaves this morning,

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: Yeah. Yeah. And

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: longer.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: on the ground. I know. I really put things into perspective that. I have a friend, Gabby, and she always says, you know, like, we're here for a good time, not a long time. So try to remember that. I'm like, I wanna have, I wanna have fun like that. I [00:40:00] wanna enjoy it as long as I'm not causing harm and actively, hurting others.

I wanna enjoy the moments. And a lot of my life, I was so focused on getting financially stable and safe that I was pushing and pushing, and there was this motor inside of me that just kept going and going and going. And now as I reach 40, I am, I feel a settling and of a, a pause and just wanting to like go slow and feel it all.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: I am with you. I am a hundred percent with you, and I'm a huge activate, uh, uh, advocate, activate, um.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: Both. You're an advocate and yeah.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Uh, I'm a huge advocate for just take a walk. Just go outside. Just look what's around us. And like you said, what a time to be alive. Right? It's like, it's so, it feels like things are very conflicting with each other. It's like, [00:41:00] on the one hand, yes, there are so much hurt and harm happening. Everywhere, every corner in our lives.

On the other hand, we still see beauty and we can still be playful. Um, that's fascinating.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: Yeah, and we, we need both, right?

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Mm-hmm. We do need both. We need to stay grounded and we need to be clear as well. Um. So thank you for sharing that. Um, so as we kind of, um, getting close to the end of our conversation, um, I want to invite you to share maybe, you know, as a, as a very seasoned, uh, entrepreneur. And for me, I would even say your entrepreneurship journey started before 2015.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: Yeah.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: If I really look like, because listening to you, I feel like, hmm. I feel she's been [00:42:00] doing that for like, a really long time. Um, from like a long time entrepreneur perspective. Um, and also just at some who have gone through a lot and have a lot of like. Victories. And of course, um, at times losses. Like if you were to give something like to share with our entrepreneurs, listeners, what would you say?

What would your advice be? Just very briefly.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: Um, I would say develop trusted inner circle so the people that you bounce ideas off of, the people that you talk to when you are at your lowest, and they both can hold space for that and also help you be creative. [00:43:00] Um, I think I've been really lucky and intentional about curating an internal circle that is non-judgmental.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Hmm.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: 'cause I am really hard on myself and so I, I will be the hardest. I need other people when I'm finally get to the point where I'm feel comfortable in sharing to give me grace and, and allow me to be imperfect. And

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Hmm.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: That be my one advice. You know, like if I could start over, I would've did that sooner.

I would've developed a board of directors in some way, or an advisory board, you know,

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Mm.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: or five folks with different skill sets and and talked to them more.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I love that advice, and I want to say perhaps. Maybe it's even more important to women of color entrepreneurs to [00:44:00] have that trusted inner inner circle because we already don't have a lot of external support. Like the system wasn't built for us.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: Yeah.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: So I,

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: true.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: yeah, I really appreciate that. Um,

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: I'm so.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: and, um, huh

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: I wanna ask you a question, but you go first.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: uh, you asked me question go.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: Yeah. I just wanna know what would, what's been like the game changer for you? Because not only are you a woman of color, but you're an immigrant and, um, have sustained this work for a long time. What has been like a game changer?

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Um, that's, thank you for that question. Um, I want to be thoughtful about that. Um.

Uh, initially when I started intersectional group, I, I just had this [00:45:00] very, I had, when I learned about intersectionality, um, created by Professor Kimberly Crenshaw.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: Hmm.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: I had a very visceral feeling. Um. You know, English is not my first language. So when I learned about diversity, equity, and inclusion, I felt like, oh yeah, that makes sense.

Like I can understand why this is important. But when I learned about intersectionality as a, you know, as a non kind of English first language speaker, I felt like I needed to put in more effort to really understand it.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: Hmm.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Um, and so when I learned more about it, I realized that it actually resonates with me a lot because I'm Chinese.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: Hmm.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: My, my immigrant [00:46:00] background really helped me appreciate intersectionality, um, like in a very profound way. Um, 'cause I feel I could look at it not as a traditional American,

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: Mm-hmm.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: and I can look at it as someone who lives in America. So I had this like very, like, I, I, I just felt like I was like struck by lightning

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: Hmm.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: and I was like, holy shit, I need to.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: Everything became clear.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: I was like, this is the answer. Um,

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: That is such a good feeling. That's what I love about learning, is can sort of go through your life, the whole and. One way, and then one idea or one person or one thought can totally illuminate [00:47:00] things that you never saw before.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: mm-hmm. Yeah. No, I totally agree. And, and now even now I'm really feeling it like. The moment when I learned about, like really learned about intersectionality, it, it's also around 20 20, 20 19, 20 20. Um, I just felt this kind of like, yeah, I had these chills and I'm just, so, I feel Professor Kimberly Crenshaw probably will never hear this.

Um.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: Somebody share it with her. If you're listening. Share it

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: I'm so, I'm so grateful. Uh, but I'm just so grateful that this framework exists.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: Yeah.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: I feel I owe her a lot,

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: Aw, that's beautiful.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: so thank you for that question. Oh, I wanna cry.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: Oh, aw.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Um, oh my gosh. Yeah. So, but, uh, but this program is not about me, so.[00:48:00]

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: Just the.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: I am just a host. I just ask questions. Okay. Um, I really want people to learn more about you and talk to you and work with you. Like we said. Hi, a Cynthia. Hi Alexis.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: Yeah. Yes. And um, would love that. I think there's a few things I'm working on right now, which I'm really excited about. I'm working on the Alignment Lab, so, uh. It's a version of a 360 review for leaders, but it really focuses on team dynamics. So in my experience, traditional 360 reviews for executive leaders are very individualistic and focus on what they can do better or where they should improve and what they do well. And the Alignment Lab is really focused on looking at the team, and where each person's strength is, where their gap is, and how they can make decisions [00:49:00] better as a team. And so I think it's perfect. Um, we have a client right now that had some turnover in their leadership team. They got a new CEO and a new, um, chief people Officer. And so it's the perfect time to get aligned on the business strategy and the people strategy. And so, um, that is one thing that we're rolling out that I'm really excited about. So if you have any transition on your team. As an executive leader want to know more about that, you can reach out to me. And then the other thing that I'm really excited about is we have an online class that is really focused on individual growth and perspective. so not everyone necessarily is receiving support from their employer to do personal development and professional development. And so we've created a really low cost online class. Um, called constructing perspectives, which is meant to be that intentional pausing [00:50:00] and reflecting through videos, journaling, quizzes, um, activities that take you to talk to your family, your partner, your friends. Um, people in your neighborhood. the idea is that we would do it in small groups. So small groups would sign up for it and they'd be facilitated by me, and we would have conversation all in collaboration with, um, the learning.

So. That, and we have all the same services. They just aren't the ones that we need to advertise as much or talk about as much because

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Mm-hmm.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: the things that we've done the last five years are not gonna get us through the next five years.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Right.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: important that I and construct the present, evolve, um, like the changing landscape.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: I love that. And, um, this is someone I would love to introduce you to, who also talks a lot about alignment, um,

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: yes.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: especially in, uh, executive teams and leadership teams. [00:51:00] Um, uh, I, yeah, I'll make sure to connect you with. Him, his name is Cam. And um, so yeah, I mean I want to take the online class as well for myself even.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: Oh

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Um, so we'll make sure to have a shout out, um, to, uh, our network and yeah, I'm just so grateful you cam here today.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: I'm just so grateful to be asked. I think maybe there's a perception that we are all busy, right? We're all doing a lot of things. 'cause I definitely could have reached out to you and been like, I've seen your podcast. I wanna be on your show. So thank you for being the one to. The courage and do it. Um, I'm always impressed with the intentionality you bring to everything you do, Joe, and you are so rooted in community and I love that.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: And, and you as well.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: Thank you.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Okay.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: we're colleagues in that way for sure. We're colleagues in that way

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110602: Yes, absolutely. And [00:52:00] with that, oh, with this fussiness, um, I feel fussy. I will stop recording here.

alexis--she-her-_1_11-07-2025_110601: Perfect.