"I Never Want To Stop Learning," with Alisa Kajikawa, on Leadership, Learning, Intersectionality, and Abundance.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: [00:00:00] All right. Uh, hello everyone. Welcome back to the Intersection Podcast. Uh, a program about intersectionality and all the stories that come with it. And today I'm very honored to have my guest here. Um, I've been volunteer, um, with her, well, I've been led by her. As a volunteer for three, four years now, and I'm very thrilled to have her here as my guest today and talk about her journey.

And her name is Alyssa Kawa and she is, uh, seasoned and senior leader at J District, uh, which is my, which is next to my neighborhood. Uh, in Portland, Oregon, if you are not familiar with [00:01:00] it. I am. So we have like river that cutting the city through and there's West Side, there's east Side. We're on the east side and, and we are both in Southeast and J District is right next to mine, foster Pal.

And J District is a very international, very diverse district where so many small businesses, uh, work and thrive. And Aliza is the leader of the J District. And, um, I hope I explained it a little bit and I would like to invite Alyssa to introduce herself. Welcome Alyssa.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Thank you. Um, yeah, thank you for me. And, um, you did, you explained it great. I think, um. Yeah, my name's Elisa Kaji and um, I'm the acting Jade District Manager. Um, at [00:02:00] Ano. The, the Jade District is, like an economic development program, um, that is funded through Prosper Portland, which is the Economic Development Bureau of the city. Uh, our main focus is. Our small business district, stabilization and supporting the small businesses in the area. But that also, um, it, it does not exclude working with community and residents and, um, of the Jade District. It is a very holistic approach, but the main focus is, is economic development with our small businesses. Um, yeah, and it's a lovely, lovely area that, uh, 80 Southeast, 82nd and, and Southeast division around that intersection. [00:03:00] many small business owners who from, I guess it could be more anecdotally from my. to know folks and walking around. I would say the majority of them are bipoc owned, immigrant owned, small businesses.

So it's, it's, uh, an amazing area to be. To be part of. And I, I don't know about leading. Um, I, I want to co-lead with you and I think Joe, like you and the rest of the steering committee are help lead me in, in the path of, of the work as well. So thank you.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Well, thank you. I mean. We love J District, uh, you know, as a, as a resident and, uh, kind of kind of like a community member. We do go to J District a lot, uh, mainly to eat, and of course there are a lot of. [00:04:00] Businesses there that are not restaurants. So that's just kind of like a stereotype as well. You know, when it comes to small business owners from immigrant families, it's either a grocery store or like a restaurant.

But there are also other businesses as well, like, you know, um, gift shops or like flower shops and mechanics. Things like that. Um, so it is a very vibrant and diverse community and absolutely, you know, with your leadership, um, we're able to do some good things over the years and of course, have a lot of lessons learned as well.

Um, so thank you for that. Uh. Brief introduction, and I will also, you know, I met you at j districts when we met. You were already the manager of the, uh, development program and, uh, we've been spending quite some time together over the years. But I'm also curious to learn, you know, um, having been a nonprofit leader [00:05:00] for, uh, these many years, um.

How, like, how, what brought you into the space, the industry, and how has your journey been since you entered the space?

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Yeah. Um, it was not anything that I was thinking about doing actually. Um, I was teaching English in Japan, uh, and uh, decided that I wanted to get my master's degree in, um, tesol, which is teaching English to speakers of other languages.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Okay.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Um, yeah, with like the main goal of actually going back abroad. And living and working abroad for who knows how long. I, I just, that's what I loved to do. I loved to experience and live in different countries and cultures and languages. so that was actually really my main focus. And then [00:06:00] when I decided that I was staying in Portland, after graduation, after receiving my, the master's degree, um. I didn't wanna piece together like adjunct teaching jobs.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Hmm. Right.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Right. And that would've been the logical choice after getting a, a master's in TESOL was to go, well,

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: a job and teach. I saw so many of my like peers doing that and it just running across the city and, and not having benefits because you're adjunct and

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: and not having security and. In all truthfulness, I didn't actually ever really like academic. Teaching. So, um, like fell in love with community ESL, which is community-based learning, um, you know, for the purpose of communication and connection. [00:07:00] And so when I look back on it now, I, I, I, it's fitting that I found myself into like kind of social services nonprofit work. Um. Just even how I wanted to teach English, um, is kind of under that umbrella. So I was able to find a part-time teaching, um, US citizenship classes,

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Um

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: yeah, at a local nonprofit. And that's how I got my foot in the door with the nonprofit. And I got hired on full-time, eventually as, um, a community. Oh. was my title? as a community outreach supervisor.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Um, and I actually worked in the refugee and immigrant mental health department, um, with like the admin and the facilitation of getting their peer support specialist training. Uh, program certified with the state and [00:08:00] then also helping with the facilitation of the trainings afterwards. And that was amazing and I learned so much there and was connected and working in community. Um, was great, uh, that, so that's how I started in nonprofits. Um, I did decide after, you know, some time there that. I wanted to experience more professionally, um, saw the opening at Apao for the J district manager and was like, Hey, that sounds interesting.

It sounds like I could use my experiences and, and knowledge to do the job and it will be like a growing job as well. And

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: what I thought. So, um, a learning job for me and.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: I've been now at AANA for four years um, earlier this year I, I became the community development director, [00:09:00] as well. So it was definitely a growing job.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Yeah, I mean that's, that's fitting, you know, I mean, you always are, you have always been, uh, someone with growth mindset, I feel. And, um, you are so kind of not kind of, you are so humble and willing to learn and you always are like so approachable. Um, by the committee members and of course your commu community members as well.

And, um, I really appreciate your honesty. Like, I'm not into academics. Uh, it's funny because when I went to grad school, my professor really wanted me to continue like, um, postgraduate program, like PhD, et cetera, and I'm just like, no. I don't think I said

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: you.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: into academics to her face, but I was like, I think my [00:10:00] excuse was was, uh, like I need to start working and make money, et cetera.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Mm.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: but yeah, I'm also someone who prefer to learn. While I do something like, instead of like just cracking books. I mean, that's really cool as well. And I think, um, people have a different kind of preference when it comes to learning. So I resonate with that. Thank you very much.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Yeah.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Um, yeah. And now you are a director of the district, uh, J district.

Um, so I, well. Again, J District, maybe, maybe we should explain a little bit. I think J District, uh, intuitively it indicates, uh, Asian American communities and Asian communities.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Mm-hmm.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Uh, and of course the J District [00:11:00] is not only for Asian business owners, and we've seen folks from, uh, various and all kinds of backgrounds.

So I think, um, while looking at J districts, in addition to the Asian American community. Uh, we also see many other businesses like from, uh, say, um, African American or uh, uh, mid East. And um, of course, uh, interracial and multiracial communities as well. Um, but because our role in the district, it is under the leadership of a pano, which really.

Uh, emphasis on, uh, Asian business development or Asian community development. So there is kind of like a focus in the Asian, Asian American community. [00:12:00] And what I'm curious about is, you know, at least in Portland, whenever we talk about leadership, um, we don't immediately think about or picture someone who look like us.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Hmm.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Like an Asian person or an Asian woman. Um, but of course in our J district, Asian leadership is everywhere. Um, which is really cool, at least for me, you know, as an immigrant, I, I didn't really get to see a lot of people who look like me, get to, uh, air quotes, climb the ladder and get to the top. Um, so I'm curious, you know, as.

Uh, Asian woman in leadership, how has this kind of journey been for you? Because you also mentioned this is a learning job. You know, you went from a manager to director and the [00:13:00] future will unfold. So how has this leadership journey been for you as an Asian woman in Portland? Uh.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Yeah, I was thinking about this question and even my thoughts of my own, like my own notes were rambly and all over the place. 'cause it's hard for me to, I think separate and think of like my journey or my role in leadership. Like only in maybe being a woman or Asian American woman. I like there's just so much more to it, I think for me.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Mm-hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: hence your like podcast of intersectionality. Right. I

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Yeah.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: um, I will say that it, it has been absolutely amazing to work at Apao and [00:14:00] be able to work with. So many people from the Asian diaspora

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Mm-hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: with different backgrounds and experiences, um, that, and it feels very comforting in a

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: It's an experience I've never had.

And I was born and raised in LA and so I,

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: you know, grew up in diversity and it wasn't, um. Like I never had to think about it.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: and moving to Portland, that's like all I think about

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Right?

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: I mean, right. Portland still is a very white city

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Mm-hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: and like, I don't think I'm saying anything brand new. Um, and so. It's weird. So I'm, I'm like, this is my rambly part. It's weird where like if I go back to [00:15:00] LA to visit,

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: surprised at the diversity,

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Wow.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: right? Like it's in your face and I'm like, yeah, there's like people from all over the world, like just everywhere. Not just concentrated like in East Portland or,

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: um, you know, the Jade District, which is very international and, and multiracial and multiethnic, um, and diverse. And so it makes me, you know, a little sad about that in Portland. And, you know, Portland's catching up, you know, has to from our history of Oregon, but. think working at Ano and, and seeing the leaders at Ano as well who are Asian of Asian descent, um, means a lot. And knowing that ano has been there and helped actually so [00:16:00] many people move on and forward, even passed upon.

Oh, to

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: be in like the Oregon state legislature? Right. Wow.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Yeah.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: With we, what was it last year or two years ago, right? Four or five being Vietnamese

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: When I miss the, yeah.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Right. Were elected to various role like senators or representatives of the Oregon legislature, um, historic. And it was amazing. And I think as and as a woman especially, to see so many women. through that and be the leaders of in our state and advocating and fighting for policies and laws are gonna not just help their community, but everyone, um, is inspiring.

And I think that's for me. [00:17:00] I guess I know I'm also biracial, like I'm mixed race

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Mm-hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: mixed ethnicities. Um, but growing up, yeah, I didn't see even in LA because of media and like who was on TV and who

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Politics 'cause right. When I think leadership, especially when I was younger, I just thought politics kind of thing. Or you see the CEOs of big companies they were never Asian

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: No, they don't look like us.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: no, they don't look like us and especially Asian women.

Right? So, um, I think being able to be part of this of moment, uh. Is awesome and, and I try and think of that to help. [00:18:00] I wanna be a good example I think as

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: And not just maybe for other Asian or biracial women or, kids or, or

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Mm-hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Anyone who feels a little different, right? Anyone who isn't part of the quote unquote status quo

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Mm-hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Of the country, of the city, of, of whatever they wanna be excelling in. That you can do it and, and it's, and you can be yourself and you can excel in what you wanna excel in. Um, and I think, I don't know if I answered your question about.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: I think you are. You are doing it. Yes.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Um, see, this is when I start to feel rambly.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: It is okay.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: but yeah, I think, [00:19:00] yeah, I, I guess I'll, I'll end that thought there, but also I did wanna touch, like, in my notes, I was then really thinking about being, you know, a woman in kind of leadership. And we've already talked about this being a learning job. Like I always wanna be learning.

I never wanna stop learning. And I think that's why I gravitated towards teaching

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Mm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: as like what I maybe thought I wanted to do. 'cause to me, teaching is learning like

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: A hundred percent.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Right. Um, and I gravitate to always, um, how do I say it? So I, my dad. From a very early age, one of his favorite things he used to tell me was, change is the only constant.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Mm-hmm. Yep.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: I, and right as I got older, I started to understand more and more what that meant. I think that's one reason I've been [00:20:00] very comfortable in my life with change. And I, I embrace change. And change to me is also learning, right? It's being open to learning, being open to. Have my opinions changed to have my, um, ideas changed to having, um, and, and because, and they're changing because I'm learning, right? Because I'm learning new things and

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Mm-hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: um, open to the possibilities of, of what else is out there.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Yeah.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: And so part of that was my upbringing. Upbringing and my personality as well. then there's part of that that I really think, I guess to play some gender roles for a second,

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Right.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: a woman having like able to empathize with people [00:21:00] and like. Change and learning and growth cannot come without empathy.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Mm-hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: And, um, I think as a leader, as a woman leader, and as a Asian American woman leader, or I don't like to say I'm a leader, but in leadership, I, I want to. I, I want my leadership and the way I lead to be informed and shaped by the people I'm quote unquote, leading

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Mm-hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: team, by my coworkers. I don't wanna dictate how I lead, like the Virgo part of me definitely does, I won't lie. there is that, that Virgo part. really, when I'm quiet and I'm really truthful with myself, want. I, I, yeah, I wanna be informed by [00:22:00] other people because I wanna treat people. Everyone's different and everyone has different ways of, of working, of living, of seeing things. I wanna be able to like. Not accommodate myself to them, but have the respect enough to be able to help them thrive in the way that helps 'em thrive the best. And I, for me, that's good leadership and that for me, that's also I think the advantage of being a woman in

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Right. I really appreciate that. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for sharing, um, your perspective and understanding of women in leadership, and I do really agree. We are collaborators, like, we like being a villager and we like being in the village and. I think it's a combination of giving and taking, right? Like you can't [00:23:00] just give, give, give, uh, you also have to learn to receive.

Um, so I think that's like very well. Like, uh, almost like a visualization of women in leadership. It's like I see a group of women sitting under the tree and they just talk, talk to each other and like, Hey, what happened today? And like, Hey, this is my advice, blah, blah, blah. And then at the end of the conversation, you know, dinner is ready.

Or like, you know, like, I clean the vegetables. I, I don't know, I pick the feather off the chicken, you know?

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Yeah. Yeah.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: I don't know, just a chicken came to mind, so,

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Hey, why not?

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: um, that's wonderful. Yeah. Thank you. Um, especially now, you know, we need collective collectivism and community centered leadership. Um, so that's very much needed right now. [00:24:00] Um, of course, you know, in our chat. Well, our dialogues over the years, we talk about, uh, intersectionality and specifically how it's represented in our J district.

Um, and I'm curious, you know, I, I don't think we ever really kind of like expressed it between us. Like how, what, how does intersectionality show up in your life? Um, so I'm curious, you know, like how. How does intersectionality inform you in your life experience? And it doesn't have to be just about work.

'cause you mentioned, you know, growing up in LA and I, and now going back to LA you are surprised by the diversity. So I'm really curious about just how intersectionality shows up in your life, just in general.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Yeah. Um, I think like [00:25:00] kind of some of like the, of the other questions are, and things that I was thinking about as I was kind of taking my own personal notes. of went back to hindsight for

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Hindsight, okay.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: like I, I feel like for me, um, I don't realize sometimes in the moment the things that are happening

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Mm-hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: thinking or how I'm thinking of it.

And in hindsight I'm like, oh, maybe that's not explicitly what I was thinking about. But obviously that was playing a part, like I might not have had the vocabulary for it or kind of something like that. And, and this is another one. I, I think, is kind of the case. And I think partly, I mean, I was born into intersectionality. Like,

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Right.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: I am, I'm half Japanese American and half Eastern European or Jewish American.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Mm-hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: fourth generation on both [00:26:00] sides. Um, I've always had kind of this innate just with that and with my family. Um. Growing up and I think that has helped me, um, that's helped me in my life, whether, you know, I knew it or not at that time, or I understood what it was. I mean, obviously I don't think I knew about it as a kid or anything like that. But now looking back. I, I think it helped inform my views of life in general. and so I, I think, I like to say I, there are times in my life I really want things to be black and white at work in my personal life, world of news [00:27:00] views, whatever, right?

It would be so simple if things could be black and

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Yeah.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: right? But, um. It, it rarely is. And I think I also learned that because of the way I grew up,

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: um, that I kind of see life as like a, the gray scale of the spectrum.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: is.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: And, and now in hindsight, I relate that to actually what intersectionality is.

Right? Intersectionality is. Not black or white. It's not one end of the spectrum or the other. It is the gray scale and the gray scale of of that is so large and so vast. And, um, I think. able understand that there are nuances that we will never know or see or maybe [00:28:00] even understand, but they're there and they, we have to respect that there are nuances and the things that we deal with or with the people that we are, are in our lives for whatever reason. Um, it helps. Me be a better person or it helps me, I think, be a person that I want to be. that's how I viewed intersectionality for myself as a framework for my life in general. And that's professional and, and personally,

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Mm-hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: I, I want, how do I, like, everything's just the gray scale, just every, because it's,

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Yeah.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: everything. Is more than one. We are the sum of our own parts. Multiple parts

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Mm-hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: right? No one is one thing. So [00:29:00] I have, I use that to remind myself when I might be upset or angry at people,

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Mm-hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: let's just say it, right?

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Yes.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Um,

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: feel that.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: I'm or when I'm losing patience on simple things, even driving or this and

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Oh gosh. Yeah. Every day.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Although, yeah, I know my LA driving comes out. I'm an LA driver, so as far as, uh, um, road rage, but, but I, I, I will try my best, even in those moments to use that kind of framework Hey, I don't know what's going on in people's lives,

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: exactly.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: right? So.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Yeah, I resonate with that a lot. Uh, you know, not just the driving part, but, um, but to be fair, you know, intersectionality is a relatively new [00:30:00] framework. There wasn't a name to it until late eighties, 1980s, uh, by Professor Kimberly Crenshaw. So I feel like a lot of us growing up felt it like, but like you said, there wasn't, you know, good words to use to describe it sometimes, you know, growing up in China, for me it just felt like sometimes it's like, I don't fully understand it, but this is how I feel.

Like I can't really describe it. So as a child, sometimes I would just be upset, you know, like I feel upset, but I don't know why I feel upset. Um, and I feel intersectionality. It is a really good tool. And in your words, a good scale, like not, not like a measurement like inch by inch, but you can kind of like, um, it's kind of like a way of, uh.

Just perceiving things.[00:31:00]

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Mm-hmm.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Um, and everyone has their own story and struggle. We just never know what's going on with people's lives

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Yeah.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: and even in our J District, right? It's like, okay, this community member shows up this way. And sometimes I would question, you know, and this is not just in the J District, of course, and just as a community member in general is like.

How could they not understand this? It's like, right, especially as people who oftentimes experience, uh, marginalization or oppression, like sometimes I will question, well, if you are someone who experienced this, how can you not understand what I am going through? Um, but that's the thing with intersectionality is, um, it's a scale.

It varies. And, um, we all need this kind of [00:32:00] training and learning and practice to be able to, going back to you mentioning earlier is empathize. You know, a lot of things cannot happen without empathy, and I feel intersectionality and empathy just go hand in hand.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Yeah, I, I agree with that wholeheartedly. Um. I think, I think people would be surprised at how large their intersectionality is, if we wanna quantify it.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Like even people who think that they know that they are this like 2, 3, 5 things, right? They are, um. They are Japanese, they are second generation, they are, whatever professional, and they are a [00:33:00] parent. Like, and these are their values point, right? are people like that. There are many people like that. And, um, I'm not necessarily, I'm not trying to have a judgment on that. I just also think it's limiting,

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Mm-hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: And I think that's when it is hard for empathy to creep in.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Hmm,

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: when people are so rigid on who they are,

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: anything else is outside of what they think they are. And I, I know that sound, I mean, it sounds weird, but.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Yeah.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: I think it's true. And when you can't allow yourself to see how many little intersections you have within yourself, you

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: I,

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: fully have the love and care and empathy for, uh, other people,

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: yep.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: [00:34:00] um, and understand that. So, um, yeah, I, I love intersectionality because it's, I think when it first came out and people still only. Maybe use it for, um, kind of what I guess I would call surface level things like sexuality and gender

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Mm-hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: and that, and that's kind of, kind of a tool, but I like to see it as just all the little multitudes of oneself. Um, there was an exercise actually that my dad. Um, shared with me a long time ago when I was asking, I was in a college class way back when and he said, I don't know if he did this, or he was some time at a training or something where this happened, but they, um, [00:35:00] had an exercise. I think they were doing it with partners, so I think it was even more uncomfortable. But basically one person would ask like, like, who are you? And the person had to respond, I'm, but that kept going, that was the only question that was asked. Um, I ended up doing a project where it was interactive, like people wrote down. Questions. It was a test, like a hundred questions, but every question was, are you?

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Wow.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: you gotta try and write down like, I am so, so, so I am blah, blah, like a hundred times. And when you get to like 10 even, you're like, I don't know what else to say.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Like, but as you keep going, you're having to delve deeper.

Um. And really [00:36:00] and answer that question in a way that you've never thought of. 'cause we're always, our basic answer is like, well, I am a woman. I am Japanese, I am Jewish, I am a teacher.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Mm-hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: am okay. But once you get past that, like who, who are you really? I think that exercise, again, in hindsight looking back, was like a true kind of exercise in understanding your own personal, like intersectionality.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think that's beautiful. And um, I, and almost on note, you mentioned your dad a couple times now. I feel he must have been a very influential figure in your life.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: He, he is, he was, and he is, um, no shade to my mom. I love my mom. They're just very different people. [00:37:00] My mom has, I, I can give props to my mom with things like, um, yeah. So like my mom, was always, I was the daughter that was always annoyed at her mother.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: and my mom is very. Open and friendly and can talk to anyone and everyone, and that used to annoy me.

And now of

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Uh,

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: I find myself doing the same things

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: like, damn it.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: right? And I, I, there's that part of me, but then I've reframed it understand that my mom gives. Brings joy to other

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Mm-hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: because she can talk to people and she can just be lovely with anyone, right? And just give a compliment to a stranger or like say hi to a stranger, and that brightens people's days up.

That's the connectivity, that's the community, right?

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Mm-hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: so [00:38:00] I've reframed it as an adult to. love that part of my mom and to love the fact that I have that part of my mom as well. So, I mean, and that, so that. But my dad has also, 'cause the work he did, he worked as an educator and he worked in nonprofits himself.

He has kind of that background that I now have found myself in too. So I, I feel like he's, um. Yeah, and, and my dad kind of helped instill in me while I was a shy child,

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: not necessarily a shy teenager.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Mm-hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: And, um, I think my dad working in education and nonprofits, I saw the, the value in speaking up and in advocating and though it could be scary.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Mm-hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: To talk in public or [00:39:00] to like raise your hand and be the person that asked that hard question. I, I was raised I think to be like, it's okay to do it. Um, and so that's the part of my dad that I, I've held on to as well. Yeah.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Yeah, I think that's very sweet. Um. And I just wanted to kind of like go back to the way you described intersectionality and the like many questions, and they're the same questions. Who are you? And I am, and to me it looks like a, almost like an animation or like a, I don't know, illustration or like a meme of some sort is there's a ball, right?

Like a ball has many, many pixels that make the ball. And you are like, what is this ball? Like one pixel and then this other piece of this ball is another pixel. And they're like, yeah, I am this, I am [00:40:00] this and this. But then at the end of it, like all these questions answered, and you look at all these small pieces and then they all just quickly come together and become a ball.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Yeah.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: So at the end of it, the real question or the only question really is. What are you, I am a ball, so I feel like all these questions, like, who are you? I, I'm a Lisa, I'm Joe, I'm a woman, I'm a teacher, I'm a, all that. After all these questions, in the end, the only answer or the ultimate answer is I am human.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Mm. Yeah.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: I feel, you know, if there's any learning intersectionality, I feel it will be that like we are so many things, the good and the hard and the joyous and the stuff, and at the end of it it's just, I'm human and so [00:41:00] are you.

And I feel that alone loan can bring people together.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Yeah, I it, and it does. mean, I, I have seen people unheard stories of. in this political climate, right, of the kind of differences and the kind of opinions that are, or counter opinions and fighting and stuff, when really, if somebody who's more eloquent at speaking than me in and, and asks questions and reframes questions in different ways. Ultimately the answers are all the same.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: know.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: they all, most people all just want to feel safe,

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Mm-hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: for, to have their family be safe and [00:42:00] protected. Um, and really that's what it kind of, I think all boils down to is. That's it. And I think intersectionality. Well, it seems like we're creating more, like you said, it ultimately just kind of boils back down something very simple.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Yeah.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Yeah.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: No, that, I think that's really cool the way you described it. Um, so thank you for that. Um, and I think we also talked about, you know, how, uh, divert, we talked about diversity. We talked about how vibrant and our community is, and I think about. A few years back when, you know, during COVID, um, I think at the time people just considered, uh, Asians as [00:43:00] this one person.

It's like one people. What are you? I'm Asian then. Okay. It's your fault. Right. Um, and even like, I remember when I was in, uh, visiting Hawaii a few years ago, it was quite some time ago. I was, uh, regularly mistaken as a Korean or Japanese.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Hmm.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Um, so I, I feel like there is this kind of like, uh, uh, confusion in people, like who are Asian people, what is Asian?

And as you and I know, and our community members know that, um, the Asian American community is not a monolith. Um, you know, like even just look at. Uh, pay equity and pay transparency. We know certain Asian populations make way more than other Asian populations, [00:44:00] and of course there is classism inside the community.

There is colorism inside the community. There is also, you know, ableism, ageism, all that kind of things. They all do exist in our Asian community, so it's not. It's not so simple and talk about intersectionality is it's not a monolith. It is. So, um, it's so diverse. It has a wide range of identities inside the community.

Um, and I think, you know, being in the DRE district, one common goal we all have is to try to. Bring a abundance to the community and to allow our community members to thrive and share resources and to uplift each other and grow together. Um, so I'm [00:45:00] curious to learn about your, uh, experience and learning about, um, the abundance mindset and what abundance.

Can look like for Asian Americans.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Yeah, I, you know, I think I personally struggle, struggle with the abundance mindset. Um, like I believe in it and I want to like have that be my main state,

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Same.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: of mind. Right. But it's hard.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: hard.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: is.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Yeah. It's very hard.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: is. Very hard, um, because I think we live in a country, in a society that, I mean, we could say world, but let's just take the US

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Mm-hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: I mean, it's extreme capitalism, so [00:46:00] it's extreme. need, you need, you need this, you need that consumption, consumerism. there's that kind of. Aspect of it where you always feel like you're lacking. 'cause you don't have the, latest thing that is now being thrown at in your face 24 7.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Mm-hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Um, and we also have a system, a political system, a social service system, um, healthcare system, all of that is lacking. it does not serve everyone. It serves the top most powerful folks. And then there's, yeah, there's nothing else. So there is some reality to the fact that is scarcity in certain things that we have created that way. [00:47:00] But I think abundance mindset. It is so powerful and something that I, I wanna work on personally for my own self and my mental health and my personal life, but also like professionally in my job and Jade District because. There, there's more of us. There's more of us working folks. There's more of us non one percenters.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Mm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: of us who have such common bonds than there are the 1%, right? And and even the government and the people in power that. Already right there. That's abundance there. There's physically already more of us and the fact that we all have so many of our own individual strengths and experiences that we can bring [00:48:00] with us. And if we're able to then, like we were talking about with intersectionality, able to see that boil down. To the core. We all really just want the same things. We have so much to take care of ourselves and our community and, um, not just our friends and family and our immediate community, but our community at large. and so I think I see kind of abundance mindset in I. Well, well, one of, actually, one of my main goals, or one of the goals that I would like to, I don't know if I'll ever see accomplish,

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: to work towards

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Yeah.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: is getting of that zero sum

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Oh gosh. Oh,

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Right. Right.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: yes.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: And the opposite of that is [00:49:00] abundance mindset.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Mm-hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: is now. So it like do, it's for me now, said this word a lot already. I think during our conversation is reframing. 'cause that's something that I'm also working on is like needing to reframe how I say things or see things or think of things. Um, and so maybe it's a reframing of like, Hey, y'all like. This isn't just a, a situation where, um, either you have it and they don't, or they have it and you don't, but

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: I,

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: because then that's already kind of looking at a scarcity mindset.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: yep.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Right?

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Yep.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: And even if we're trying to or, or show the opposite. Is it [00:50:00] beneficial to like, introduce that mindset? I don't know.

I mean, these are all the learning moments, right,

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Yeah.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Um, so how do we introduce the abundance mindset in a way that folks can understand?

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: and I don't have an answer for that right now. I think that's, it's more of a question

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: That is a hard question.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Um, because it's not just one size fits all either,

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: No.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: And so even if we just take, like we've been talking about the Jade District, let's just take the Jade District small business community.

We're not gonna even take, we're not gonna think about any other community right now. Just the Jade District, small business community,

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Mm-hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: they're so diverse.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Yeah.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Right. Not just in in cultures and backgrounds, but in experiences and in opinions and viewpoints. So how do we [00:51:00] connect with them as a whole in a way that resonates with them on, on this, um,

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Mm-hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: uh, um, what do you wanna call it?

The, uh. Of course, Allison, mutual aid,

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Right.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: right? Basically I think mutual aid is abundance mindset.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Yes.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: We have enough to take

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: I,

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: of people and I will give what I can because I have enough of this one thing

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: to help people who might not have that thing right now.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Mm-hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: And

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Mm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: we can get our bi small business community to kind of think that way and collectively work together,

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Mm-hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: um, I, I think we can have a really thriving business district that can [00:52:00] weather that are coming. Um.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a really, really good, hard question. I also don't know if I have the, you know, the right response to it or the answer to it. And I do agree. Mutual aid is abundance. It's like solidarity economy, right?

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: system is not solidarity. It's like very individualistic.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Yeah.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: And I feel a lot of our community members, like small businesses or organizations, uh, um, right now, especially in this moment, in scarcity mindset,

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Yeah.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: because the one, the threat is real, like.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Yes.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: When we don't live in a vacuum, and two, which I think we do have some ability to help, is trauma.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Mm-hmm.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: I feel if people, like people [00:53:00] don't, people are not born with scarcity mindset.

You know, children, a lot of people, a lot of kids share, right? It's like, can I have a bite of that? Of course you can. Can I invite someone over? Of course you can. Children in general are inclusive. Um, they, and then the scarcity mindset sets in how, because we become adults, we learned about the danger and the risk and the threat.

And, you know, as someone who, you know, look like me or look at you. I'm sure we all have this experience of like being stabbed in the back. Like that definitely has happened before. Like for me, even at school, that's happened before. So we are traumatized either physically or you know, emotionally, sometimes the big T, sometimes the small tea.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Yeah.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: So you know, like for people [00:54:00] who have the scarcity mindset and actively practice it, a lot of it I do think is, uh. Protection. It's like a, a self, uh, like a, a guarding mechanism. And, and that's a trauma response. So, you know, one way to address the, the lack of abundance mindset, I do think we want to address the trauma.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Yeah. Yeah. That's powerful.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Yeah. And then you know how we do about how we, how we gonna do it. That's, it's another like problem solving.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: It's definitely problem solving because it's also like, like you said, we don't live in a vacuum. We live in reality. And so it's not abundance. Mindset doesn't mean ignoring the actual realities of life and what people are going through.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Mm-hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: But it's also about how do we balance then that, how do we balance those [00:55:00] realities and. What is happening in the world? The actual implications of things that we don't necessarily have control over that create that actually help to create that kind of scarcity mindset.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Right?

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: And you know, at no one's own fault, is there. That's the reality. So how do

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Mm-hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: of balance that with this? Like, hey, but like have enough, like

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Yeah.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: sometimes really like, like. Come on. You know?

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Yeah. Right.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Yeah,

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: No, I agree. We have enough. Um, but we need to, like you said, uh, Lisa, reframe, we also need to get creative. How, how do we get the resources we really need to get to the hands that, you know? Get in the hands now.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Right.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: yeah, so I mean, I would love to continue that discussion, [00:56:00] um, either in community or, you know, with you continue to talk with you.

I'm sure. I mean, I know we are gonna see each other next month.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: gonna continue to talk. Yes.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Yeah, but like really, if we are gonna put something out there and say, Hey, universe, pretty answer us. If we have listeners out there and be like, I have an idea about abundance, this mindset. Like we want to talk about it, we want to hear about it.

So that's also kind of like a call to action I guess.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Yeah. Yeah. And then any, any listeners or, or people who wanna also help with how do, how, like I know I, I work in community and part of my job is organizing community. It is hard.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Oh gosh, yes.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: And like what are some other strategies of, especially our small business owners who,

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Yeah.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: set of bi small business owners, how, how do we get them, um, collectively [00:57:00] together too, right?

Is another question. And Yeah,

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Yeah. So yeah, the questions are out there and,

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: questions.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: um, we're here to continue to explore and, uh, just keep trying, I think.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Definitely.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: So thank you Elisa, so much for giving your time today. Um, I really appreciate it and I'm grateful for your leadership in our J District and it's been wonderful to be working with you and our community and committee members.

Uh, yeah. And just look forward to continue to learning, like you said we do and we learn and we continue to learn more.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Yes. I thank you so much, Joe. I am. So grateful for you, um, and your leadership as well, and your, your love for community.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Mm, thank you.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: having me on too, I

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: [00:58:00] Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, last but not least, where do people find you and, uh, maybe collaborate with you?

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Uh, yeah, you can find me on AOS website.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Hmm.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: if you just actually wanted to find my email address, a PA nno.org. You can also email. The best one for the Jade District is Jade info@ano.org.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Hmm. Wonderful. We'll share that in the notes. And, um, also, you know, for real, for folks out there who are curious and interested in learning more about our J District, uh, please go visit. It's great to see things happen on Instagram. It's true. You can like it, you can comment. That's all great. But what's really, really helpful is to actually go visit our J [00:59:00] District and.

Try our food and buy our things. Um, and we will really appreciate it.

alisa_1_12-18-2025_112054: Definitely, I know our businesses would, yes.

zhou-fang--she-her-_1_12-18-2025_112047: Yes. Um, so with that, I'm going to stop recording here. I.