"Joy Isn't Fluffy!" with Lee Wilmoth, on Injury and Recovery, Embodied Leadership, Joy and Styling.

Zhou Fang: [00:00:00] All right, we are rolling. Hello everyone. Welcome to the intersection, a podcast program about intersectionality, intersectional identities and intersectional journeys, and, uh, all the stories that come with it. And of course, behind every story there's a real person, and we're just so fortunate to have all the guests and storytellers.

Come and share their own journeys and stories. Um, and today I'm thrilled to welcome my guest. I think this is the third time we see each other in less than a week. Um, maybe just, just to show you how small Portland is.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): Yes.

Zhou Fang: but yeah, we have Lee Wilma. Own the program today. And I actually have a hard time like finding words to introduce you.

'cause I feel you wear many, [00:01:00] many hats. Um, quite, maybe literally. Have you have I seen wearing hats.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): I see where you might think that.

Zhou Fang: Yeah. And so, um. Just so that I don't kind of accidentally mess up the introduction, I'm gonna ask you to introduce yourself. Welcome Lee.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): Yes. Thank you Joe. Appreciate it. So, yeah, I do wear many hats with pride. Um, my life contains multitudes and so does my professional life. Um, so professional life. I am a consultant. I do a lot of work in learning, experience design, human-centered design. And really facilitation, working in many different sectors, um, and industries, which I also really enjoy.

The creativity, the nimbleness of that, and getting to, yeah, have a view and a perspective into a lot of different ways of [00:02:00] working. really love that I get to do this work. I have my own independent consultancy learning work that I've had. Since about 2019. Um, and I also do a lot of team development and leadership development.

Um, some programs of my own, um, that I, that have, I've developed in collaboration with some awesome folks. Um, also show up in this work. So I have, uh, a program called Embodied Leadership, which is all about. Developing nervous system awareness, um, in your leadership positions so you can make meaning of dysregulation when it comes up and still, you know, think strategically when change and transformation is constantly happening around you. I also have a program called Joy Isn't Fluffy, that is really a culture development program. Uh, for leaders, for teams, for organizations, but really about developing kind of a disposition or a competency around joy in leadership work. Um, [00:03:00] and very, very much complex joy. Not this kind of live laugh, love kind of joy, but joy that really acknowledges that, you know, grief and sorrow are kind of right alongside its sibling of joy.

And how do we really cultivate that? In organizations despite, um, yeah, a lot of kind of change in transformation. And then I'm also a personal stylist, so I have a styling business called out of the closet fits where I help leaders and general public, uh, just really restyle what is already in their wardrobe. So sustainability is really important to me. Um, and I love buying things secondhand or really just encouraging people to look in their closets and see what they already have and refresh. Um. What's already there. So a lot of my work in a nutshell is about transformation. Um, either with organizations, individuals, teams, or leaders.

It really is all about [00:04:00] transformation, personal and professional. Um, and then outside of work, I am a dance dancer and a performance artist in Portland, Oregon. and love to be outside. Love to practice my broken French, and I also love interior styling as well, and just hanging out with my friends. Being in my, being in my community is really important to me. Um, yeah, that's a bit, that's a bit about me and my, and all of my multitudes.

Zhou Fang: Uh, I mean that's like, I don't know, 12 hats and counting.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): Yep.

Zhou Fang: Um, thank you for sharing your background with us and I think one of the reasons we wanted to chat today is about like, some lessons that we learn, um, not necessarily as professionals and, but also just as a. A person, like the lessons we learned from like injuries and our recovery [00:05:00] journeys and you mentioned you started, you know, learn and work back in 2019.

And I feel a big thing about consulting and teaching is we are learner and teacher at the same time, so we pretty much take what we learn. And then to use that to teach other people. Um, so that's how I see how teaching works at least. Um, so you are very active, you know, as a teacher, as a consultant, and as a speaker.

And I'm sure you take all the lessons you learn from like your personal life and community activities into your professional work. Um, so. As we were chatting before, you mentioned that you had a pretty serious injury, um, maybe a while ago. I, so I want to invite you to share your story, um, that's related to injury and recovery.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): Yeah, thank [00:06:00] you. Yeah, so it was 2024. Um, and

Zhou Fang: Hm.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): I've, I've, up until that point, it was the year I turned 40 and I had pretty much spent 40 years being injury free. I had some minor sprains here and there. Um. You know, little kind of body things, but was mostly very much living in a, in a very abled body, quote unquote, um, and existing in a world that, you know, really facilitated, you know, an an ableist kind of existence. Um, as I mentioned, I'm a dancer and a performer, and so my. practice was my body. Um, my vessel for creative output was my physical form. so I had again navigated some, you know, low back things that I was kind of dealing with here and there and what you would maybe call, you know, element of chronic pain, but never in a way [00:07:00] that really debilitated me for a longer period of time. And then total fluke accident in 2024. In the spring of 2024. I was going, um, downstairs these stairs I had been going down for years. Um, they were some cement stairs that goes down to the basement where our laundry unit was at the time. Um, and I slipped fell on these cement stairs. They were wet, I think it was rainy spring in Portland. Um, and they had, you know, been that way before, but whatever, in that moment, that's what happened to me. So it was, uh, very unplanned, very unexpected, um, and pretty much. Took a year plus of recovery. and I was [00:08:00] not able to dance. I was not able to jog, I was not able to perform. Um, actually I take that back.

I, I did perform and we can talk about that, which I think is kind of a, a good moment of seizing an opportunity despite something annoying and unexpected happening. but. In short, I was not able to kind of really be in my body or in my creative practice, therefore, in the way that I had spent essentially 40 years being able to, to do, um, I. And feel very grateful for my community that showed up during that time. Um, as a self-employed person, I had to navigate losing work. During that time, I had to navigate up work again while being injured, um, especially as someone who does in-person facilitations. That was an interesting lesson, which I'm happy to talk more about. [00:09:00] Um. And, you know, I'm sure we'll get into it, but really just the, um, the solitude that can also come along with injury and recovery while the rest of the world is living their life because they're not injured and they're not in recovery, at least not in such an acute way. And yeah, till this day in, you know, spring-ish of 2026, I am still kind of navigating it because I ended up needing ankle surgery, and have hardware in my ankle for the rest of life. Um, and again, as a dancer that does a lot of springing dynamic movement, I'm still dealing with, you know, an altered body. Um, and the ongoing. Lessons of how that's impacting my movement quality and how I'm to move differently at 42 years old now, probably because of [00:10:00] that injury, and again, finding, um, some. Lessons in that finding some gratitude in that. And also, you know, giving myself permission to be like, I wish that wouldn't have happened to me. not like I was doing some extreme sport and like kind of

Zhou Fang: No.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): into some kind of sketchy situation or had a planned surgery because I knew I had to deal with something.

It was, yeah, I, I kind of feel like. And I'm now part of a club in some ways of like something unexpected happening to you that you were totally unprepared for.

Zhou Fang: Mm-hmm.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): And I really appreciate meeting other people who can really empathize with that no matter what it is. I do feel a, a much deeper well of empathy for, when accidents [00:11:00] happen and it impacts you physically and takes you out of your life for an extended period of time. Um. You kind of end up knowing who those people are and definitely also knowing the people who that hasn't happened to. 'cause it shows.

Zhou Fang: Oh, totally. Yeah. Just like, why couldn't you just do that?

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): Yeah. Like, okay. It, yeah. Well it shows that you've maybe never experienced something like this, so. Yeah. Um. So that's, that's kind of, uh, again, happy to unpack many levels of that, but that's the overall story behind that moment in time. That had a big impact on me.

Zhou Fang: I have to say now I have to be very careful when I walk down the stairs to my basement. Uh, I think it's the same kind of stairs.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): use

Zhou Fang: Yeah.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): That was the

Zhou Fang: Yeah.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): I wasn't holding on the handrail. You know, maybe that would've helped. Who knows? Right. But I do use the handrail a lot now. [00:12:00] So for all your listeners out there, the handrail exists for a reason,

Zhou Fang: For a reason. Uh, I mean, talk about design, right? It's like,

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): Yes,

Zhou Fang: yeah. How, yeah. Uh, so yeah. Now I have to be very careful. Thank you for that. But what I appreciate from kind of like your story here, really the point stands out is, um, the ongoing lesson.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): Yes.

Zhou Fang: I think, you know, we talk about, uh, aging quite a bit these days, um, but we don't really talk about.

How our physical ability gets impacted when it's not just aging, but also you know, the outside impact that to our body. And then in addition to that, our body is aging. So like for example, like when I broke my [00:13:00] toes when I was a kid. I'm like, I felt nothing like, sure I couldn't really put weight on my foot, but I was just the same as happy.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): Yep.

Zhou Fang: you know, like I navigate, kids are very resilient, but like 30 years later, different story.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): Different story. Different story.

Zhou Fang: so that's really like a ongoing lesson for all of us. It's like how do we navigate the physical challenges that come with injuries and our body just does not work the same as before. Hmm.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): Yep. And the, and the psychological impact. The psychological impact of physical injury,

Zhou Fang: Yeah. Yeah.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): is such a huge, you know, the depression, the anxiety, frustration, the the impatience, you know, that just of course [00:14:00] surfaces when all you can do is like be immobile for weeks on end. And again, this is all very. At the end of the day, this was still a temporary year of experience for me. Like I very much have to acknowledge that like I am not someone who is forever wheelchair bound because of this accident, thank goodness, like, and deep gratitude every day. Actually, I feel like it is still very conscious to me now, even two years out from this experience that I can. Essentially be pain free while I'm walking around. Now I need wheelchair assistance. I don't need a scooter assistance. Right. So this is, this is coming, this is conversation that we are having, at least for myself around injury and recovery. Um, is a privileged one. And I think, you know, it's important [00:15:00] for me to name that in this conversation.

Zhou Fang: Mm-hmm.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): And, um, it is something that now that I'm not in such an acute phase of this injury or in such deep recovery mode, I have to, you know, be mindful of Yeah. The lessons that I learned from that. And again, not to, to silver line it or Susie sunshine it because it sucked.

Zhou Fang: Yeah.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): Um, it sucked a lot and had a big impact on me, and there were some really interesting things that surfaced from this forced recovery from this forced slowing down in this, that it have happened.

Um. That would've been nice. And also, I, yeah, some stuff surfaced from this experience, which I think is something I've heard a lot in people

Zhou Fang: Hmm.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): like [00:16:00] this happen.

Zhou Fang: Mm-hmm.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): yeah, that's, that's all I'll say about that for now. I'm sure we'll get more into it, but

Zhou Fang: Yeah, I resonate with that a lot. I think a kind of forced, slowing down is a very like, um, either some kind of reckoning that can happen during that time or, and, you know, feel humbled or just like a lot of like, oh, I'm not invincible, you know, that I cannot do everything. And you know, when you say something unexpected happened that.

It has a huge impact in your life. Um, I actually think that happens to a lot of people. Um, but most people either don't wanna talk about it or don't have the right words to articulate it. 'cause because it's unexpected, right? So there's certain randomness to it, and I feel a lot of people may [00:17:00] think, um, damn, why, why did I get so unlucky?

Or like. Why would this happen to me? Right. This kind of like, I don't know, perhaps it's a little bit of victim mentality, like, oh, this sucks. And, but I think if we step back, you know, 'cause we both had this kind of unexpected things that happen to us. Yes, it is unexpected at the same time. It happens every day.

It's like. Yeah, I know. So like if we say, why me,

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): Yep.

Zhou Fang: then why not me?

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): Yep.

Zhou Fang: You know, we're not, not that special and anything can happen to anyone. Mm-hmm.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): And that's something that during this recovery time, I was reminded that someone in my life once said, [00:18:00] everybody is fighting a hard battle. Right. And this experience, you know, was actually, you know, the battle I was fighting was quite obvious to the greater. Public, you know, I was in a scooter, I was in a boot.

I wasn't around because I was at home recovering. Right. It really got me just thinking about all these invisible things or the things right, that people don't have the language to speak about that are very much happening subtly, s suddenly, or, um, happening in a way happening in ways that are maybe not so obvious as my experience and the humbling part, right.

The understanding that. Even if people on the outside seem like everything is fine, there could be several multiple things happening at once in people's lives that are really, out of nowhere. And I think something that I found in this experience, as you're [00:19:00] saying though, that made me feel a little sad, was that more people aren't. Sharing and talking and that we don't have spaces to maybe vulnerably, express all of those things that are occurring for us. Right. And um. That was something that also surfaced during my recovery time of being like people coming kind of out of the woodwork and sharing stories that they had experienced that were similar to mine.

And I was like, I've known you for years and you never told me that story, or you know, those types of things. And it's like

Zhou Fang: Mm-hmm.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): me, of course, yet again, question kind of our societal American. ways of socializing, ways of working that really, um, can keep us, mean in systems of productivity, can keep us in systems of just like masking and all of those things unfortunately us from each other [00:20:00] in our like, very human experiences. Um. So I digress a little bit. Maybe getting a little too existential here, but those, those were some things that definitely came up for me in recovery as well.

Zhou Fang: I mean, I don't think you went very far. 'cause I, I can relate to that is, you know, even when I was. Like forced to, to slow down. You said I had that kind of like shame, you know? It's like, I definitely felt like why like just suddenly I'm just not capable anymore

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): Right.

Zhou Fang: and that felt very weird.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): providing? Yeah. Like what, what's my purpose?

Zhou Fang: Mm-hmm.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): will, yeah, do I have value in this society? Or something

Zhou Fang: Mm-hmm.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): gets, I mean, I and I need to always know more kind of about disability, politics or philosophies around disability. But again, it, it. Opened the door on a more obviously personal level for me [00:21:00] around, the very valid ongoing discussions that need to be happening around our perspectives around disability in this particular, you know, American Western society, which is the one I'm coming from.

But how we shutter in or keep secret or keep hidden. People who, you know, quote unquote, aren't valuable to us in society because they can't be productive in those types of things. It was a very like

Zhou Fang: No. Agreed.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): humbling,

Zhou Fang: Yeah.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): experience for me.

Zhou Fang: And even people feel like they need to hide their disability so that they don't lose their job. Like that reminds me, I read recently, you know, air controllers, like they have such a hard job, right? Like at the airports and stuff to ensure safety, et cetera, and there's a huge. A shortage of air controllers.

So they are already working [00:22:00] under huge kind of amount of stress and pressure, and on top of that, they are afraid of sharing their mental challenges because they're afraid of losing their jobs because their job is literally keeping other people safe. So like the, the, the theory is if I'm mentally unstable, then I am not able to do the job, then they could fire me.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): Yeah,

Zhou Fang: But that's the thing, if you are not stable,

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): you probably need a break. You probably need to take some time away.

Zhou Fang: yeah.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): We don't want you operating air traffic control. If you are super burnt out you're really checked out of your body, right? Going back into my nervous system work, if you can't name or even notice your the dysregulation that's coming up for you you're still operating again in this kind of. Automatic way that could literally cause such intense [00:23:00] harm. And it all

Zhou Fang: Definitely.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): these systems of not creating safety, not creating outlets us to recover.

Zhou Fang: Yeah. And I should add, there are, act, the, the, uh, self harm and suicidal rate for air traffic controllers is a lot higher.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): Ugh.

Zhou Fang: And so, to, to your point, I mean, the system is entirely just, it's, yeah, it's, it's broken.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): Yes,

Zhou Fang: And I.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): if, if I may, actually, this kind of goes into element of what we've chatted about around self-employment because at that time and still now I was self-employed. I did lose work. The moment that that happened, I was supposed to have a facilitation gig. Um, a couple days after that, it was going to be virtual, but I, you know, I had to go into [00:24:00] emergency room.

I had to, I was on drugs, you know, it was a not a, I was not in a good professional state to do any kind of work, and I lost income as a self-employed person. I didn't have PTO, I didn't have sick time. Right.

Zhou Fang: Right. Yeah.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): So again, the kinds of ups and downs of self-employment and because I was self-employed, I was able to recover in ways that to a certain extent, if I had an employer, I might not have been able to at with as much ease. There's also things around how in this country I have to pay for my own health insurance. As a self-employed person, I'm

Zhou Fang: Yep.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): off those medical bills because I'm also not getting employer mandated health insurance. So it's like, it is a very complex, annoying system from a healthcare perspective and from a, [00:25:00] self-employment or employed perspective. But what I'm trying to really get at is that I did have, systems in place. I had scaffolding in place to a certain extent for my recovery time. That allowed me to work the pace that I needed to in that

Zhou Fang: Mm-hmm.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): a sustainable recovery process because I had some scaffolding through community, through multiple revenue streams. Um, and yes, you know, paying for my own health insurance and losing some work during that time was obviously like the negative aspects of that. I wasn't forced to go back and be productive like [00:26:00] immediately.

Zhou Fang: Mm-hmm. Right.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): I had ways of pulling on several levers as a self-employed person, and again, since my work contains multitudes, um, over time, I was able to lean into those areas really again, be thoughtful about the pace of my recovery versus, again, being in our capitalistic system, being forced to just like go back into productivity mode maybe before I was ready to, right.

Zhou Fang: Right.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): Mm-hmm. And for folks working maybe in a knowledge worker capacity that would've been different for them, but millions of people are laborers doing service work and all these types of things that like the, those types of situations and scenarios. Um, and even in a lot of knowledge worker environments don't facilitate. Proper recovery. They just want you back working for them. [00:27:00] So, um, that's again, something that I also just wanna name about this, this process.

Zhou Fang: Definitely. I mean, if we really think about, you know, how the system is not, is not human centered,

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): Yes.

Zhou Fang: right? We look at how we handle people with, not handle how we treat folks with, uh, disability and including folks with like in. Invisible disabilities. Right? Like, because you look normal, like what's wrong with you?

Right? It's like get to work to, you know, people say, uh, parents, if you just give birth, like that's a traumatic, that's a physically traumatic major event to a human being. And we, we, why do we not see that as a traumatic event? It is a traumatic event and, um, the fact that we don't have a [00:28:00] standard paid leave policy in this nation, for me, that's just like, I'm not a policy expert.

I'm not a healthcare expert. I'm just a human. So I'm speaking from like. Hu What's that? Uh, what's the, the, the, the human sense, like the basic, like just being a or Yeah. Decent. Just being a decent kind of system. Take care of people who literally produce more people.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): Yes,

Zhou Fang: We are producing future labor force.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): exactly. Yeah. God.

Zhou Fang: Uh, but if they are gear, well, we'll just use the robots then

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): I know. Yep.

Zhou Fang: anyway. Um, so I want to touch on the psychological impact you mentioned, um, during your recovery and I had that [00:29:00] kind of, um. Kind of psychological experience as well. As I was sitting around not being able to do anything or go anywhere, it just felt like I was just spinning and um, I don't know if I was depressed or anything.

It definitely felt weird. It felt like, okay, like when is this gonna end?

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): Yes.

Zhou Fang: that was what I asked myself, like, is it gonna be a week? Is it gonna be a month? Is it gonna be three months? Um, so I had that going for me. And then so I'm curious because a big part of your work is joy isn't fluffy. I really want to try to kind of like explore the psychological impact on.

In recovery. And like you said, joy is never so simple, right? It's always as associated with [00:30:00] grief or sadness or confusion, and that does not stop us from creating or experiencing joy.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): Yeah.

Zhou Fang: like, so joy isn't fluffy and. You know, during recovery you experienced this psychological impact, so I, I'd like to invite you to share a little bit more of that.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, the joy isn't fluffy framework I think would be helpful to bring in here. So it came out of a year's plus worth of research into. Joy and again, really complex versions or representations of joy. And out of that, my collaborator, Kim Middleton and I synthesized it down into five principles and practices out of this research, , the five principles and practices that came out of that research were related to noticing. Connection, pausing, viewing, or [00:31:00] perspective and practice. So, and I bring up that framework because my recovery time, all of those principles and practices really came into focus for And I have to say, you know, I had spent a good. 20 years prior to this accident, um, being in some kind of mindfulness or somatic body practice in a very intentional way. I feel fortunate for that because even immediately when I was in the most excruciating pain I've ever been in, in my life personally. I, you know, I didn't get pain meds for like several hours. I was just sitting in an with a very broken ankle, and I needed to breathe from my belly and use my [00:32:00] somatic body-based practices to help me through a very intense physical trauma in the many weeks. Of actual just having to sit do anything much.

Bringing in gratitude practices, inviting people over to connect with me and be with me. Um, some perspective of I won't always feel like this even though I'm really steeped in it right now. I was already primed of. In some ways get through an experience like this.

Zhou Fang: Mm.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): never

Zhou Fang: Okay.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): to apply those principles and practices so acutely before, right?

Zhou Fang: Mm-hmm.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): So I am, you know, in the years since this has [00:33:00] happened, I, I sometimes, frankly, I sometimes meet people. Who, at least as far as I know, have never experienced this kind of accidental, life altering moment in their life. And I wonder for some of these people, if they don't have these types of principles and practices embedded in their life already, I almost hope they never have to experience something like I experienced or like what you experienced because. I worry how they will get through something like that. I worry that it really might break them because there isn't this sense of already having some of those tools and resources to lean into. And so in my work, yes, through Joys and Fluffy, through embodied leadership. I'm very much trying to [00:34:00] frankly, prime organizations, prime teams, prime leaders on a professional level to navigate acute and sustained dysregulation. But inevitably, as we said too, as teachers, as educators, is also stuff that we can apply to our personal life. that much showed up for me in this, in this time. That's what I'll say about that for now.

Zhou Fang: Yeah, I'm really glad, uh, you said that because I definitely felt, uh, felt, I felt similarly. I felt, I mean, at times it felt very. I was very irritated, like very annoyed as well. Um, at the same time, you know, just years of um, you know, therapy work and kind of like self-regulating like, 'cause I had really like 10 years ago.

I [00:35:00] had pretty bad anxiety and then I learned how to manage my own anxiety, like kind of having a conversation with it and then so that it will just like calm down. So I can't imagine if I didn't have all those learning and practice, you know, like yoga and like you said, breathing, embodiment. I don't know what I would do.

I probably would. I don't know. My mind would just go wild, I guess.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): It would just be extra hard, you

Zhou Fang: Mm-hmm.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): be,

Zhou Fang: Yeah.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): was already hard for us. Right. It still is hard for us and I, I'm so, and even, right, you named the irritability and the frustration. I feel like that's actually like. Credit to you being able to specifically name your emotional, physical experience during that time.

Right.

Zhou Fang: Yep.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): A lot

Zhou Fang: Yep.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): people can't even verbally say like, I'm Irrit, I'm irritated right now. Right.

Zhou Fang: Yeah.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): I think like was able [00:36:00] to create space for all of my irritability and I was able to create space for. Working through that irritability in a way that completely didn't like consume me or obliterate me, if that makes sense, because

Zhou Fang: Mm-hmm. Totally.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): of practices that I had kind of already but really got to see if they worked or support me, you know?

And some days they. And just some days they didn't like it was hard, you know, just, and there's also were many, many days where I was just like, I don't want to do what I know I'm supposed to do for myself right now. I do just wanna like wallow and be annoyed and be fussy and frustrated and,

Zhou Fang: I know.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): by me.

Right? And I think that that is. Totally healthy, totally healthy for us to do for ourselves. Um, I think the fine line is just [00:37:00] lingering and wallowing in that versus saying, okay, today is a new day and maybe I'm still having to sit here on this couch and like literally pretty much do nothing and. Do I really have to do nothing?

Like is there an opportunity for me to explore something else today in a slightly different way? Even if it feels kind of like let's get curious about something in my environment. You know, like, yeah, it's not a perfect science and it doesn't apply to everyone, but I know for myself in navigating my injury and my recovery, there was this. Definitely daily balance of giving myself permission to really feel frustrated that this accident happened to me, um, and simultaneously [00:38:00] find my way out of it and like, lighten up a little bit, um, through the ongoing recovery process.

Zhou Fang: Yeah, and I mean, that's significant, right? It's like you have all the tools and then now you have to apply all of them.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): Lucky me. Lucky me. I really got the opportunity to do that,

Zhou Fang: Totally.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): have that opportunity again in my life. You know, like

Zhou Fang: I mean, we all will, I think. But I, I, I do think to your point, you know, the, all these, uh, high impact events to our lives, it could be a physical injury, it could be, I don't know, a relationship or like financial struggle. All those high impact events, you can call them unexpected. Um, but luckily we are prepared.

Right. It's like knowing it or not. [00:39:00] We are prepared to a degree,

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): Yes.

Zhou Fang: um, and we have this toolbox we can pull out and apply them. So I mean, that's pretty fortunate as well.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): absolutely. And gratitude, I would say for myself is was just reminding myself of this today as I'm navigating other things in my life and noticing. This morning that I was feeling some anxiety about things that I'm having to deal with in my life, right and from the toolbox.

I was like, let me pause a moment because it's okay for me to feel, be feeling the anxiety I'm feeling about this particular issue in my life right now, I'm grateful that my ankle is not broken right now.

Zhou Fang: Mm. Mm-hmm.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): That great. That's awesome. Like, yeah, this other thing is going on, but I'm [00:40:00] not currently navigating that. Um, and I, just speaking to, you know, the ongoing, it's, it, there's always a little bit of something going on, right. And how can. We again, as practitioners, practice what we preach, quote unquote, and I'm being able to just reflect on these injury and recovery moments and know that, you know, in late spring of 2026, I'm not, I'm not dealing with that right

Zhou Fang: Mm-hmm.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): At least not it, definitely not in the way that I was in spring of 2024. Um,

Zhou Fang: Yeah.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): Again, like lighten up a little bit about my situation.

Zhou Fang: Mm-hmm.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): yeah.

Zhou Fang: I will also add, um. It's very lucky you are not living in a very humid environment.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): my gosh.[00:41:00]

Zhou Fang: Yeah.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): me more.

Zhou Fang: Because if so, for, for people with like, say, joint, uh, problems, right? Like arthritis could be a real thing and then, um, just, you know. Because of the injuries and the repairs and et cetera. As we age, um, our bones and joints will feel more of that environmental impact and in a more humid environment.

When it's winter, when it's cool and humid, your bone will let you know.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): Oh my gosh. That's so good to know.

Zhou Fang: Yeah.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): someone I'm, it's probably good. I don't, I grew up in Michigan. It's probably good that I maybe don't live there currently, then.

Zhou Fang: you, you might not, you, you might not want to go there

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): Noted.

Zhou Fang: again, not medical advice.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): Noted. [00:42:00] Yes.

Zhou Fang: Yeah. Um, not a medical thing. Just, just, just, you know, caution.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): Yes. Valid.

Zhou Fang: Um, I was thinking about something that I need to ask you, but now it's escaping me. Um, but one thing that I really, maybe, you know, as we wrap up our conversation is, um, you also talk about, uh, styling

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): Mm.

Zhou Fang: we all know like.

Joy and styling, they go sometimes hand in hand.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): Yeah.

Zhou Fang: Um, how and when you, as you help and support leaders, uh, grow,

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): Yeah.

Zhou Fang: uh, internally or externally, how does styling be another tool that you have in your consulting practice?

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): Absolutely, and styling was a big part of my recovery[00:43:00]

Zhou Fang: Hmm.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): Styling has always been a, a mood booster for me. Some people call it nowadays dopamine dressing. Um, it really has been an outlet of helping my mental state if I want to feel kind of, you know. Gloomy or like re like sometimes my clothing wants to match that. if I'm feeling a little bit low and I don't wanna be feeling that way, yeah, I will put on clothing that helps my mood. That helps me kind of elevate myself a little bit or find that, find that kind of joy again. That energy. And so when I was in recovery, I really still tried, at least for myself, mostly just on the top, because I had to wear these pants most of the time because of the, the, the cast and then the boot and all these things. But I still tried to wear tops or [00:44:00] sweaters or shirts or accessorize in a way that made me feel, um, like it could bring some. Lightness, some playfulness, some joy, some ease, um, to myself, even if I was just stuck at home. But also I started to virtually facilitate again and top up, you know, like this is, no one

Zhou Fang: All right.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): was navigating an injury. So again, very grateful for the nimbleness of, of my self-employment consulting practice in that way. Um, but styling I think is such a powerful asset for us as we are navigating. The ups and downs of life. Um, I very much know that it can take a lot of energy and effort for people to get dressed every day, and I'm a really big fan of having of like a, a capsule collection or like a bit of a, a plan [00:45:00] for how you might get dressed every day that still makes you feel good, makes you feel like yourself. Um, makes you feel confident, and that could just be kind of the same articles of clothing, the same style of clothing every day, but you know that once you grab for those pieces in your closet, those are the pieces that are really going to again, help your mood, help you step into that meeting. Or deliver that pitch or keep working on that project in a way that feels a little more enjoyable, a little more, um, yeah, like yourself. And there's so many ways to do that with the pieces that are already in your closet. Even if you think you don't have anything in your closet, I promise you, you have something in your closet that can be refreshed, that can really work for you. And then I also, you know, give a lot of coaching to folks who [00:46:00] don't have some of those pieces in their, in their closet that they would really like to have.

And then we talk about consignment, we talk about secondhand. We talk about eBay. You know, we talk about all the sustainable ways that you can find those pieces online that are not buying from fast fashion, that are not buying new, are not buying from like big box stores. There's lots of different ways to go about, um, dressing ourselves in ways don't, um, totally give into consumerism

Zhou Fang: Mm-hmm.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): consumption practices.

Zhou Fang: Hmm. I love that. And I'm curious, you know, are there, um, I mean, of course we want people to work with you and help them feel confident inside and out. Um, and if people are to do that, uh, themselves in at least important area, what are the, like the, do you have favorite stores, like places you would recommend people [00:47:00] to go and check out?

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): I mean for local folks who are living in Portland, Oregon, there are some really great consignment stores, so vein of gold, deep Lake. Circle round are some consignment stores that I really enjoy quite a bit. Um, and there's also just great, again, thrift stores that you can find. Mom and pop shops are kind of my favorite. Um. There are so many different little boutiques that also sometimes have secondhand racks and then just shopping online. I really love the app, Depop. It's probably my favorite. Um,

Zhou Fang: called D-E-P-O-P.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): Uhhuh. Yep. Depop

Zhou Fang: Ah.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): eBay. eBay's kind of having a resurgence or a re renaissance in a lot of ways, and I'm a big

Zhou Fang: I learned, I learned that, ah.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): Um, [00:48:00] I think that would be another great place for folks to go to. There's also, you know, if, you know you have a pair of pants, a brand, a size that you really like, get another pair and find them secondhand, right? Or. your body has gone through changes, right? But you want to keep a piece around, go and get it tailored or find that same piece just in a different size.

Secondhand, online, right? You actually have all the information there to find the thing that you know you like already.

Zhou Fang: Hmm.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): get it in a different style, get it in a different color, um, Definitely for folks you know who like work happen to work from home. I'm totally okay if you stay in your pajamas all day and there is something definitely psychological about shifting. From an at home outfit to some other kind of outfit that can just help us, again, set the tone for [00:49:00] the day. And so I do think for folks who find themselves in a work from home environment, being able to at least change your clothes into something that is not just the pajamas from the night before can go a long way for your

Zhou Fang: Yeah.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): being kind of like, I'm ready for the day. Let's take care of what I need to take care of.

Zhou Fang: Yeah. It's also kind of like a psychological, like a switch.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): Yes.

Zhou Fang: Yeah. I

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): Yeah.

Zhou Fang: appreciate that.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): Yes.

Zhou Fang: 'cause you know me, I always wear black and now I'm like, huh, maybe I need to add something.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): Black is classic. It is timeless. And yes, sometimes, you know, it's also just a sense, right? If you're like, I am needing to change it up, I'm feeling kind of like, not like myself. That I think is the indicator of like, I haven't been feeling like myself. How can I feel more

Zhou Fang: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): currently live in a society where clothing is more often than not, and so [00:50:00] how might we help ourselves again. Become more of ourselves through that clothing, find some ease so we don't have to think as much about it, um, but still, you know, show up as leaders and know that how we show up as a leader matters and has an impact. Um, and how can we do that in ways that don't break the bank still feel like, uh, it's attainable and fun for us.

Zhou Fang: Totally. I do think Portland is a good place for that. Like be creative and have fun with it. And, um, there are so many secondhand shrift stores or like consignment stores around town. I think we're pretty lucky. Yeah. Um, and like you said, some online services also provide affordable options. Um, those are all great.

So as we wrap up our today's conversation, um, where are the best places for people to find you [00:51:00] and just to DM U and hey.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): absolutely. My website, and work.co and I'll send that to you so you can put it in the show notes. All of my links for all of my services are there. So Embodied Leadership, you can find out more about that program. Joy Isn't Fluffy. You can find out more about that workshop series and outta the closet fits.

You can find out more there too. And DM me for a closet consultation and then I. information on my website. Clients I've worked with, really just what my services range from in terms of facilitation, human-centered design, change, strategy, all that good stuff. Um, yeah, I would love to have people reach out to me there.

Zhou Fang: That's awesome. Yeah. And, uh, we'll make sure to have your website in the show notes so people know where to find you and, um, thank you so much

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): Thank you, Joe.

Zhou Fang: for spending time.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): Yes.

Zhou Fang: [00:52:00] Yeah, I. I really enjoyed our conversation.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): Me too. Thank you.

Zhou Fang: Yeah. Do you feel you had the proper, you know, like getting the, you know, learn learning and lessons from injuries out?

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): absolutely. Absolutely.

Zhou Fang: If now we'll do that again.

Lee Wilmoth (they/them): Yeah.

Zhou Fang: It's a continuous process. Yeah. All right. With that, I'm gonna stop recording here.