"Our Humanity is Our Greatest Strength", with Sarah Williams, on Expressing Humanity through Art and Design, TriCity Life (OAK-NYC-PDX),...

Transcript:
0:01
Hello everyone, welcome to The Intersection, a podcast program about intersectionality, intersectional identities, and intersectional journeys both professionally and personally.
And as we all know, they are very interconnected.
0:17
And I am your host and producer Zhoufang.
Today we have another amazing guest coming here to share with us their own journeys and stories and the learning along the way.
Please continue to listen and find out more.
0:33
Welcome.
I know.
Hello.
Hello.
Hi.
So before we started recording, we were already chatting.
So I think we let's just get into it.
0:51
And hello everyone, I am talking to my very good friend Sarah Williams.
She is a magnificent creative and a designer.
And Sarah, you wanna say a quick hi?
Hello, thank you for such a lovely intro.
1:09
Which really is nothing.
We before we started recording, I told Sarah that if you had seen my office, you would know I can see outside like what's going on in our street.
1:25
And just right before we recorded this episode, I saw a lady walking her dog or a dog, not necessarily her dog.
The dog pooped and they walked away.
Shameful, shameful.
It's the bare, it's the bare minimum of of responsibility.
1:47
If you have a dog, take care of a dog or pet.
Just just think about your neighbors.
Just just pick up the shit, man.
That's all I got to do.
It's great we all do it though.
I know.
So if I ever see this lady again, we're going to have a little chat, I don't think.
2:04
So I, I hope that she comes back and picks it up during this conversation.
I think I hope like she does.
Yeah.
That's kind of how I, that's kind of how I feel this week.
Just like the, the hope of, you know, just the hope in humanity, you know, like maybe that's like on a very small scale, like I hope this person will come back and do the right thing, but who knows?
2:26
I know I'm not holding my breath, but of course I will be holding my breath if I have to pick up her dog's poop.
Yes, you don't want Henry going out to get that.
I really just I really appreciate that we're kicking off this conversation talking about excrement.
It just makes me really happy because as dog owners, like we talk about our dogs poop a lot and like Joe, like you and I now that like I, we don't we're not neighbors anymore because I don't live in the same state anymore.
2:50
You know, we, we get together over the phone every couple of weeks to do a, a WTP, which we've called a walkie-talkie poopy.
So we walk, we walk and we talk on the phone separately as we let our dogs go out to poop.
So a walkie-talkie poopy.
3:08
I know.
Well, that's perfect.
OK, Yes.
Walk, talk, poop.
It's called WTP.
So it just makes sense we're kicking off this way.
Yeah, I know.
And Speaking of hope in humanity, right, you, you mentioned, you know, coming to September 12th, just the day after September 11.
3:31
And growing up in New York, you had a very kind of had a week.
You had a week.
Yeah, and it's, you know, I kind of forget about it every every year when it comes around.
I mean, September 11th rolls around and I'm like, all right, this is the day that I don't go on social media because brands will, you know, make it about themselves.
3:52
And but yeah, I mean that I, I, I always forget like how how I exist in life around this time of year.
So yeah, I'm from New York originally.
You know, my dad is a retired firefighter.
4:11
He actually the day of September 11th, he, he wasn't working that day, which was thank, thankful because he ended up losing everybody in his crew that was working that day.
So, you know, he, he went down there to Ground Zero and he was, you know, we didn't, we couldn't, didn't hear from him for like 3 days because he was just like, you know, in the trenches doing recovery.
4:38
But you know, just very, very thankful.
And, you know, just thinking about, you know, how, how formative those things are.
And like, when, and I thought about like, oh, when we've, when we scheduled this podcast recording, not remembering like, oh, right.
Like I typically just feel very heavy during this week.
4:54
And, you know, there was a lot of a lot of horrific violence.
It's happening in the world this week too.
So it's a yeah, coming today.
You know, maybe not the most on and effervescent and all of those things.
5:10
But I think that's it's a nice reminder that of like where that where I have been led to at this point that like being vulnerable is OK.
And our lived experiences inform how we exist in spaces.
And it's OK to, you know, not be not be perfect right now.
5:30
I think that's actually really, really excellent advice for folks out there still trying really hard.
And nothing is perfect.
There's no way.
Yeah, you just cannot.
It's impossible right now.
5:46
And I didn't realize, you know, your father is a retired firefighter and he lost he he lost his peers.
Yes.
That's just horrible.
I.
Yeah, it yeah.
6:02
I mean, there's a lot of trauma there from, you know, the experience of September 11th.
And I mean, I as a native New Yorker, I mean, and a millennial, it feels like almost cliche to be like 911 was the cause of a lot of grief for all of us.
6:18
But it was, I mean, you think about like, you know, just it's been trauma after trauma since, since, you know, early 2000s, you know, economic collapse and presidencies and such.
So it's just a constant reminder that we don't exist in a vacuum.
6:36
And we all bring a lot of different traumas and experiences with us to every space we come to.
So giving each other the grace to, you know, to exist as we are.
Wow.
6:52
And that was, you know, and that was something like, I was thinking a lot about one of this podcast is intersections of identity and experiences.
And, you know, I think early on in my career, it was, you know, never showing vulnerability, always being perfect, always never being the reason why maybe, you know, something was running late or what have you.
7:18
But how?
Like the journey to where I am now is really centered around Like, our humanity is our greatest strength, and ignoring that vulnerability doesn't really lead to effective creative work.
7:35
It makes us more separated and isolated from each other.
That's so deep and so wise, and I cannot agree more.
Humanity is our greatest strength, and right now I feel like our strength is being tested.
7:53
Yes, so I want to, I mean, I think the whole maybe conversation will eventually go back to humanity because that's what your work is really is to express people and for people.
And I think that's how you and I connected in our neighborhood before is literally, I mean, going back to dogs.
8:14
We were walking our dogs and then we got to know each other.
And then you designed a beautiful website for me and and we became friends.
And then you're like, yeah.
Yeah, I mean, I, I am so, I mean, just for like the few years that I lived in that in the Foster Pal neighborhood of Portland, which like you can edit that specifically out if you want, if you don't want people to know exactly what neighborhood you're in.
8:38
But like once, you know, in the neighborhood that we lived in in Portland, I moved during the pandemic to that neighborhood and it was so difficult to, to get to know your neighbors because like my background, like I, I grew up in like row houses in Brooklyn and we were living on top of each other where, you know, there we neighbors were outside, we're sitting on Stoops.
9:01
There was, you know, definitely a neighbor, neighborly community feel to existing in the city that we lived in.
So, you know, moving to a new neighborhood in Portland during the pandemic where you couldn't just like talk to somebody and, you know, be in person because there's the pandemic, having a dog and having that like shared schoolyard space where people could, you know, still have appropriate healthy distance away from each other, but allow like meet people through your dogs.
9:32
I mean, I was so grateful to get to know you Joe and become friends.
And I remember like one of the, one of the conversations that we had that really started to like solidify the friendship was, you know, you were talking about your consulting business and how you're, it's centered around the themes of an intersectionality and how that's something that I've, I've thought a lot about.
9:53
And, you know, being able to partner with a small business that is looking to do good in the world rather than simply just turn a profit or to have the status quo continue unchecked.
10:13
I think that's, that's where I try to prioritize the work that I do is partnering with people who are looking to like, to like call them like either I like to partner with change makers or dream Havers, like people that I have a dream.
I want to bring something into the world, you know, be it like an author and an illustrator who has always wanted to put out a children's chapter book series.
10:34
They don't know how to do that.
Or, you know, working with nonprofits who are looking to further research and make complicated medical information accessible to the general public to raise awareness.
You know, these are people that on the surface the work might not be related, but at the core of what they're doing is that they're looking to leave the world a better place than when they came into it.
11:01
So when I think about the work that I do, it's, you know, one of our one of our neighbors in your current neighbor, my former neighbor, Kyle Letondra, amazing lettering artist.
You know, there one of their talks they had said something that has just like stuck with me so much that like graphic design are the clothes that capitalism puts on in the morning.
11:26
And that has stuck with me.
But it's like, OK, how could I use these skills to uplift others?
Because what I do, I have a very privileged role.
I am a I am a creative director and designer.
These are things that make things beautiful.
11:44
But how could I use those skills to help marginalized businesses succeed?
How can I have solopreneurs and founders and entrepreneurs like get close to their dreams of however they're looking to improve the world?
How can I use these skills that I have to get them to their goals faster?
12:04
Yeah, I, I actually, I, I worked with Kyle yesterday cuz again, we were both walking our dogs and also Sophia, Kyle's dog and I have the same birthday.
I know you should have a joint birthday party.
12:22
Yeah, I know.
So there's a dog, by the way.
And so I, I really do agree.
I feel like a lot of times we talk about privilege and we acknowledge that, but how do we use our privilege and our gifts to do good?
12:38
I think that's just like a forever question to explore.
I heard it the other day.
Someone said it's another kind of a scholar, a researcher.
I don't remember their name now, but what they said was you don't do good things because you are a good person.
12:56
You do good things to become a good person.
Yes.
So have you seen?
Have you seen The Good Place?
The TV show.
I saw some of it, yeah.
I mean, it's kind of like that, like, you know, good place points.
You're not gaining points if you have an ulterior motive for doing good deeds.
13:16
It's like, oh, I'm going to help this person because I know I'll get points for this later on in life.
And, you know, it doesn't have to be like a spiritual thing or not.
Like I'll do these good things and therefore I'll get it to heaven or whatever.
You're chosen.
And is it's you're doing the good things because they're the right thing to do.
13:33
And you're thinking about existing in a community versus in isolation.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, so thank you for that and talk about your business then word of mouth.
Word of mouth.
13:49
OK, so I run Word of mouth.
It's a boutique creative studio.
You know, you can think of me as a creative general contractor who can also get their hands dirty doing the work.
So I sit at the intersection of design strategy and human connection.
14:11
So sometimes I'm designing a brand identity myself.
Other times I am orchestrating teams of specialist freelancers to deliver everything from complex e-commerce, web launches or huge video campaigns.
14:29
You know my my sweet spot.
There is being the single point of accountability for complex creative projects and creating environments where both the specialist and the clients themselves can do their best work.
So you know what that looks like.
14:48
I, I speak a lot of different specialists languages because I've either done their job at some point in my career or have taken the time to fully understand their process.
So when I'm directing A photographer, I understand lighting and composition.
When I'm briefing a developer, I know the technical constraints.
15:08
If I'm managing A rebrand, you know, I've been in the trenches of every phase to get to that point.
So I have a full understanding of like what actually needs to be done to get from point A to point B and aligning myself with clients to fully understand what their goals are and their business constraints so that we can get to that end point.
15:27
But it's tailored to their budget and what their needs are like.
Not everybody needs a full service agency where you have paid for every service that they offer because they say you need that.
Maybe you don't need that, you know, and working with you Joe, it was OK.
15:44
You need a refreshed website that effectively communicates what your services are like.
You don't need a full Shopify website where someone can very quickly, you know, I'm going to buy this service and this service and this service.
You know, it's understanding like what your budget is, what the goals are and how can we make how can we meet those goals in the most cost effective manner so that you can get to doing the work that you're good at doing.
16:10
So like I bring this multi disciplinary understanding and approach that keeps that keeps projects cohesive and everybody happy.
I also host a podcast called creatives processing where I feature creatives diving into the processes they used to create their work.
16:33
I'm obsessed with creative process.
A lot of that is because of my my neurodivergence where I definitely get fixated on what process is going to make the work better this time.
And I've done a lot of work to move away from that type of thinking.
16:50
But the fascination there and what I mean by moving away from that sort of thinking is, you know, there isn't 11 be all end all process that is going to make the work perfect.
And you know, moving away from systems of perfection and what that means for effective creative work.
17:05
I, we, we dive into their process because it's fascinating to me.
I just love to understand how different creative minds work because you can get the same, the same logo brief to 50 different logo designers and they're going to, not only is the end product going to be different, but the journey that they take to problem solving, creative problem solving is going to be different every time.
17:29
But we also talk about processing, what it means to create professionally.
So a lot of what we talk about is at this intersection of art and commerce, technology and humanity.
Yeah.
And I also host and curate a comedy film series at the gorgeous historic Hollywood Theatre in Portland.
17:52
It's called Comedy One O 1 and I feature the Seminole films and roles that have influenced subsequent generations of movies, film makers and comedians.
So before each movie I give a little context to the comedy so you can LOL and learn at the same time.
18:12
But it sounds like wow, you do a lot of different things.
Like what the hell do you actually do here?
And that was that was a lot of the conversations that I was having with agencies and in house places throughout my career.
Like, okay, you can do a lot of things, but what actually are you?
18:29
And I found as time has gone on, you know, working backwards from the life that I want to live, which is being able to pursue a lot of different things that bring me joy and bring others joy.
That's more important than I am just a designer.
And all I do is design.
18:45
I'm just an art director and all I do is produce shoots.
So, you know, I try to prioritize joy and doing meaningful work that at least like is in service of others and allows people to enjoy their lives, live it more fully.
Yeah, thank you for the whole kind of like, like in a nutshell what you do.
19:06
And you mentioned you're kind of like a general contractor.
But if I were to make an analogy for word of mouth and the work you do, I feel you are more like a conductor.
Oh yeah, because you.
I like that.
Yeah, like my understanding is conductors, they also play music.
19:26
They usually know a few instrument, so like they can design right?
Like they can play violin, they can play cello, trumpet, exotica, piano.
So you know all that, but you are.
I do think I, I think I agree with you.
19:42
I do think that is a better analogy.
And it's, it's actually more fitting too, because I mean, I, I LED a very creative life my whole life.
I, I played music, I was a total band and theatre geek in high school.
19:59
I played in an indie band in college, you know, a lot of different instruments.
I love playing music.
You know, I'm in, I'm in the market right now for a used saxophone because I've been listening to a lot of like, like Ethiopian 70s like instrumental music and like, there's always like a wailing saxophone in there.
20:18
And I've also been so like 80s tracks too lately that like, like saxophone is like the key theme in a lot of these things.
I'm like, you know what?
I think I want to.
I think I want to.
Play saxophone again.
So I think, yeah, I wanna get back into playing music.
But yeah, I mean, I do think a conductor is a really good analogy for that.
20:33
I having an understanding and knowing the language and what is necessary to make something cohesive and sound beautiful.
Yeah.
I love that.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
I mean, I can definitely confirm you have a very artistic life.
20:54
I had the privilege to stay at your house a few weeks ago and it's just so wonderful and lovely and cute.
So, yeah, so I also want to kind of like talk about the name of your business and because we also like earlier you mentioned, you know, humanity is our greatest strength.
21:15
And I feel word of mouth actually speaks to that because in this world we always like how about data, how about algorithm, etcetera.
And word of mouth is the very much the kind of like the OG way of marketing and spreading word.
21:32
And then you rely on people.
And then we, you and I talk about the abundance mindset a lot.
And I feel there is a connection between word of mouth this, this idea and the practice of the abundance mindset.
So I want to invite you to talk about that.
21:49
Yes, so yeah, word of mouth started after.
So before I get to where word of mouth started giving some context to what my work history was leading up to this point.
So my, I started out in magazine publishing.
22:08
So that was understanding.
It was weekly magazine publishing.
It was understanding that I'm always existing, working with other teams.
It wasn't just creating art for art's sake.
You know, this was this was service.
We were creating a publication to allow people to better live within the cities that they're in.
22:30
I was working for Time Out in New York.
You know, it was such, it was so service oriented in that way.
But you know, I bounced around quite a bit, you know, working in house for an e-commerce production hub for a jewelry brand and then an at an agency.
But when I started word of mouth after, after a layoff back in 2020, Nope, it was a 2020.
22:55
Honestly don't remember at this point.
It's been a long day, a long time.
When I, when I started word of mouth, I thought about, you know, my years of being a freelancer on top of working full time.
And, you know, all the jobs that I've gotten in the past have been through word of mouth referrals.
23:13
And that's how I have hired people to, you know, it's, it's through making connections and relationship building with people within my community.
So, and it also ties into like how my parents have existed too, you know, my, in addition to being a firefighter, my dad was also a did like home remodeling and my mom's a preschool teacher and director.
23:36
So it was always like, who do you know, in the neighborhood?
Oh, I got a guy for that.
I got a lady for that.
I oh, you should go see this hair stylist.
Oh, you should do this.
So it's always like word of mouth referrals based on like trusted lived experiences.
Like I had a good experience with this person.
That's why you should work with this person versus like, you know, you go to fiber or Yelp or whatever to get recommendations instead.
23:57
So naming my business word of mouth was a reference to where all of my work has come from and over time.
And that's still where the majority of my work comes from.
I think I've only gotten one or two projects from not even advertisement going out to conferences or trade shows and pitching my services there to people.
24:24
But even still, like that's like still you're building a relationship with someone versus like through an advertisement or through somebody else pitching my services through a service or something.
So it's always come through building relationships with my neighbors community within my creative industry.
24:46
It's always about relationship forward versus simply transactional.
Yeah, I love that.
And I really love the story behind it is growing up knowing, you know, folks in your neighborhood who can refer people to people, and then that's like a repo effect.
25:07
Totally.
It's like, why, why would you go to Best Buy when you could go to like the PC Richards down the block?
Like go to this guy.
He's my he's my washer dryer salesman.
Go to this guy.
It's like it's kind of it's old school in that way where it was like before, like, you know, big box store, you know, you had, you know, you had referrals, you know, go, go see this person go, you know, they go use this gardener, whatever.
25:28
But I feel like that's sort of like the base of like what word of mouth marketing is.
It's through like building trust on experience there.
So you know, hearing from people within your community that you trust and either you understand the work that they do or the level of quality, or you're just even if it's not professional and it's simply just like you're my neighbor and I trust you.
25:50
I'm going to trust your judgement here.
I would much rather, you know, continue that that line of you've done the work here and you trust this person.
I'm going to work with somebody that you know you've had a good experience with.
Yeah.
And I also feel that's actually, you know, right now we know everything is pretty expensive with all the factors like tariffs and inflation, things like that and just, you know, market price, demand and then drives pricing.
26:19
And I feel using referrals and word of mouth is actually what and focus on local is actually a pretty good way to offset that economics impact.
Because when we, you know, use someone from local then and also say, hey, someone, someone sent me here, then they probably wouldn't just like give you a crazy price for some for something or some service.
26:48
Like recently I ordered some moon cakes from from a bakery in our neighborhood and the price is like 50% compared to the store.
And you are supporting a real local business.
27:05
You shake their hands like they make this food for you and they tell their life stories and then you walk out the store and then you saved money pretty much.
So I feel like that's actually a really good way to practice some kind of collectivism, I don't know, versus yeah, like traditional capitalism.
27:29
I completely agree.
I think, you know, like small businesses are the heart of local economy.
So when I think about like what resonates more with me now than what did when I started my career, it's keeping things very hyperlocal.
27:47
I am more invested in working with neighbors and community members than I am with the glory that comes from a prestigious agency or brand name.
You know, I think back to, you know, when I first, when I graduated college, my goal was I want to be the creative director of Rolling Stone magazine.
28:12
That was my goal and that was completely ego driven.
It was I, I play music.
I like music was life.
It is life.
And I, you know, you've seen my record collection.
We have like over 1000 vital records like your music.
Music is so integral to my life.
And, you know, being a part of that scene, that's what I wanted to do.
28:31
And as time went on, you know, I'll go back to, you know, when I worked at Timeout New York, you know, when I think back to, I've done a lot of reflecting over my 15 plus year career and I'm, you know, when I started my business, I thought about what sort of work do I want to be doing with these skills that I have.
28:47
You know, I sure I could just like go to another agency, a lateral move and work for, for people whose values may not align with mine, but at least I'm getting a paycheck.
Like, is that good enough anymore to work this way?
And then I tried to find like the commonalities between all the different roles that I had and the different places that I worked.
29:08
And what I found was the common, the intersection there was between service and community where, you know, going back to Time Out New York, it was a, it's a list.
29:25
It was a listings magazine.
You know, it's still, it's still a website, but it doesn't exist in print form, at least in New York anymore.
You know, this was listing events happening in the city, new restaurant openings, reviews, music shows, theatre performances, and you would be able to see like this is what's happening in my city.
29:45
So this was bringing people out to support small businesses.
This is bringing people out and connecting them deeper into the city that they lived in.
And at the time, it was like, I'm just working for a really cool place and like how amazing is this?
I work at this place and like I would tell people I work at this place.
Oh my God, that's so cool.
30:02
I went on to People magazine.
Oh my God, you work at people.
So cool.
So like I worked at a lot of like very cool places.
But the thing that I found later on, the thing that was actually fulfilling me once I did some actual reflection about it and not just thought about the external presentation of what I meant to be working at these places was, you know, I'm providing a service to people.
30:22
And, you know, in and in providing that service for people to get out and experience the cities that they live in, which is like such a core part of like why I live in urban environments, why I live in cities.
It is but being being a champion of your city, loving your city for all of its flaws and, you know, being able to experience it and try to like know an unknowable city, especially like New York, but shining a light on an uplifting small businesses through this service, you know, showing makers and you know, mom and pop restaurants opening up that like, you know, eventually go viral for whatever reason.
31:02
But you know, that has always been what I try and find that intersection of like, how can I do what I'm doing in service to allow community members, small businesses exist because it is, it is really, it is really, really difficult to, you know, put yourself out there as an entrepreneur or as a small business, Especially thinking about the the overlapping intersectional identities that give different levels of privilege depending on how many different identities you're a part of, you know, different levels of discrimination one can face.
31:44
So being able to tailor my services to consider that intersection of identities and how can I offer equitable rates to people looking to start businesses so that they get access to really high quality creative and have access to a quality creative partner who can help them achieve their goals, but guide them on like what is actually necessary right now?
32:14
I'm not, I'm not looking to just get your money.
I'm looking to help you succeed and to uplift you.
Yeah.
I really, really appreciate that.
And I can see your way of thinking is really to connect the dots like you really can.
32:30
Yeah.
You're making connections between, you know, neighborhoods, local economy, urban environment, things like that, which I actually hadn't put too much thoughts into it because when I you, you reminded me like all the bodegas we have in different.
32:46
Neighborhoods.
Yes, you.
Know in.
I mean, I know you live.
That's a small business right there like.
Exactly how do they thrive?
I know local, like I know.
And those are like, for me at least when I tell somebody, you know, where do I live?
33:03
I'll be like, oh, do you know that bodega at Foster and Hold?
OK.
Literally called Bodega.
Pretty much, yeah.
And as we talk about urban environment and being an urbanist, maybe you call yourself an urbanist, I want to kind of start talking about your lived experiences in different cities.
33:29
And at this point, it's kind of bicoastal, but not quite.
But yes.
So grew up in New York City and then you move to Portland and then now you live in Oakland.
They are all very important cities in the US and in your life as well.
And, and you still actually have like real relationships because you visit both Portland and New York City frequently.
33:52
And you are going to fly out next week.
So maybe talk about your relationship with cities and cities have intersections and yeah.
It's, it's so, it's so interesting.
Like my husband and I talk about this a lot.
34:08
Like growing up in New York, for the longest time, it was like, why I'm never going to leave New York.
This is this is my home.
And not only is it my home, this is the greatest city on earth.
Like why would I?
Everything I need is here.
Why would I ever need to leave this place?
34:24
And then we started traveling more together and experiencing other cities.
And it kind of dawned on me like, you know, maybe, maybe it would do me good to live someplace else even though like, yeah, sure, everything I think I could ever need was in one place.
But I definitely found in New York, you know, in my, in my 20s when I was living there, or at least, you know, professionally when I was living in New York, you know, I definitely felt like I had to, there was a certain expectation of how to be a professional and like very ambitious and cutthroat.
34:57
And that was, it's not sustainable that way.
And I thought, you know, that that was just, that was my experience.
And I, I'm not speaking for the experience of other people, but at least in my life, I thought there has to be a better way of working and a different way of working.
So maybe I changed my location.
35:14
You know, I've always romanticized the West Coast being an E coaster.
So we ended up moving to Portland 'cause we visited once, of course, in the summer during a heat wave where it's like Portland is amazing.
This is the best place on the planet.
My God.
Of course then, you know, the other nine months of the year, it's like dry and rainy.
35:32
It's like, OK, well, hoodwinked a little bit there.
But you know, going, going into Portland, I mean, like it was, it was really nice to go from being a small fish in a very, very, very large sea to a much smaller city.
You know, I found New York gave me hustle and service instincts.
35:54
Portland gave me questions and community values.
And now moving to Oakland, since we, we relocated here for, for my husband's work, you know, Oakland is giving me more answers and more of the abundance mindset here.
36:10
And I, I think about like, I'm not just from these places, I am of these places like living in these cities has shaped how I interact with others and how I exist in a, in a space.
I think about being in New York and only living there.
36:30
It's like that's the pie graph is just a solid circle.
And then when you live in another place now your identity is split between two places.
Like I, I lived in New York.
There's experience there that have shaped me and that I lived in Portland and their experiences there and the people that I've met and the community and the roots that I've built there have shaped me.
36:49
And now, like, the more and more we've lived in other places, it's like those, the pieces of those pie get smaller each time.
So trying to understand who I am after living in these places has been a challenge too.
37:06
Like, how do I, you know, I'm, I have the New York roots, the East Coast assertiveness, but definitely more of like the Portland vibe.
But then Oakland right now feels like, I keep joking, like I'm in my Goldilocks era where like like New York, love it really dense, really big, maybe too big for me at that point in my life.
37:25
Portland, love it.
A little bit small for me.
Oakland, you know, being from Brooklyn originally having like Brooklyn to Manhattan relationships, like second borough, second city, sort of thing, like Oakland, SFI am, I feel so connected with Oakland.
37:42
It is so community driven.
It is so vibrant.
You know, I saw a post recently that I've been thinking a lot about where someone had said, like, you know, if you live in these neighborhoods in Oakland, you're not experiencing quote UN quote, real Oakland.
37:59
And they're referring to, you know, there are definitely economic divides within Oakland.
You know, there are some very wealthy neighborhoods.
There are some not so wealthy neighborhoods where, you know, there is more crime.
38:14
And I think, you know, to fully know a city is to understand like its ups and downs and to understand that just for where you might be living may not be the experience that other people are living in.
But I, I think, you know, living in walkable cities, access to public services and public transit, like, I wouldn't trade that for anything else in the world.
38:37
Yeah, yeah, That's so beautiful.
I love it.
It's like New York City.
I can't remember exactly what I said, but each city you gave them some kind of like your impression and in very simple words.
38:52
And then Oakland, it's like more answers and abundance and.
Yeah.
I wonder if that has something to do also with us, you know, being wiser, just, you know, growing.
Oh, absolutely.
39:09
Like I think of like the mindset that I was in as a professional in New York was I'm out for me.
So even though I have the perspective now of the work that I was doing, what actually made it meaningful was being in service to others.
39:27
At the time, it was like climbing up ladders, getting the next title, you know, going from like associate to assistant to deputy to art director, whatever those titles are.
It's all about the titles, all about the prestige of where I was working.
And then in Portland, you know, that that that changed a bit.
39:44
But I think, you know, having to, having moved a few Times Now to have to restart in a new city and I'm, I am so, so, so thankful that I, I have a partner with to do that.
Because if I was doing this on my own, I don't think I would be as mentally stable going through this by myself.
40:03
But you know, I think coming coming to Oakland now with more of an abundance mindset versus scarcity has really.
Been a turning point where in the past if I was to move to a new city, I may have just been like, OK, well, where's the next paycheck coming from?
40:25
How can I make the most money?
How could I get the bit the next best title, whatever that is.
But now it's more, you know, I think about how am I?
How am I spending my time And maybe, maybe there there was a mindset that I had when I first when I first started my business where like any, and it's still true like any, any any minute.
40:47
I'm not working, I'm not making money, but not everything that I do to grow my business will immediately bring in revenue, which has been a hard thing to, to understand and to learn, especially when I was a salaried employee for so long where any work that I was doing, like I'm getting a paycheck for this.
41:09
But now, you know, the investing time in, in giving back to the community.
You know, I started, you know, moving down here, I joined a, this amazing community Co working space called ground floor, which is centered around, you know, it's not just simply you show up in your work, but like you're making connections with other people.
41:26
There are clubs within it.
Like I started going to an entrepreneur's club meeting once a month.
And you know, the, the confidence that I've gained and talking about myself.
And more important than that, just like being able to give back to that community too, in the sense of sharing my experience and what resources I have to help uplift them.
41:43
I started volunteering with Creative Mornings, which is a, a global breakfast lecture series.
There's one in Portland.
I encourage you to go to it.
But just understanding like, you know, my, my time is so valuable and being able to, to give that time.
42:03
That was something that I, I rarely did in New York.
So I was just out for the next paycheck and out for advancing my career, like very, very narrowly focused in that way.
But in moving to a new city again, that had prompted me to think about how I exist in a community differently than I had in the past.
42:24
And now it's, you know, I'm, I'm coming at it with more of a focus on how can I serve and how can I give versus what can you do for me.
And that's been like a lifelong journey of decentering myself and how, how best can I exist in a community.
42:44
I mean, going to, if we talked about my, my life changing trip to Japan last year, where just existing in a space for two weeks where, you know, the, the mindset is centred around society and community versus individual needs.
43:04
Just even being able to, to walk in a city where, you know, cars are deprioritized and pedestrians have right of way.
You know, just just existing in a space where like, oh, you can see that this is an alternate to how we as Americans live and how we approach business and working with each other and existing.
43:24
It's just, you know, having been living in different places and traveling to other places just gives such perspective that if I had just stayed with, you know, New York is an amazing city and I love it.
And I'm so grateful that I get to go back and then I still have family and community there.
43:39
But I think if I was to just stay in one place for the rest of my life, I would definitely not have come to these these realizations.
Yeah, I feel there are two.
I mean, maybe I'm generalizing it, but I feel generally speaking, there are two kinds of people.
43:57
One is those who love traveling and the other one is who are like, Nah, I'm good and it's not I can.
See it on TV.
Right, right, right.
Yeah.
And I feel like there are yes, there are a lot of smart people, wise people.
They choose to stay put and not travel so much for various reasons.
44:17
And I think that's legit and valid.
I also feel as travelers, you and I, and also people who have lived in different places, countries and cities, I feel seeing the world and traveling and learning about different customs and cultures, it is transformative.
44:39
It really it makes us bigger, but not our ego, but our person like it becomes a it makes us like bigger people.
I don't know if I'm yes.
No, I, I mean, it reminds me of like, you know, I am, I am such a supporter of public transit and like public services where like public transit is such a great equalizer.
45:03
And like I grew up riding buses and trains.
And when you're on these services, you are exposed to all different types of life, you know, different age groups, backgrounds, socio economic backgrounds, and we're all just trying to get someplace and get there safely.
45:22
And then when I think about like car centric cultures where you have this huge hulking piece of metal around you and you're just transporting yourself and you're you know, that that humanity is removed because you're not really interacting with other people.
You know, that other it's not another driver, it's that asshole in that car over there.
45:40
You know, it's like the humanity is removed if we're not face to face existing in a space with other people on a regular basis.
So I think like I'm very on a low level, like you're just being just existing in a space and, you know, taking these services is so important.
45:56
But just taking the time to this year has been a lot of travel, you know, going back to the East Coast for a lot of weddings.
And next year I'm, I'm just really looking forward to just diving in more to this new state that I live in.
You know, we live in the Bay Area.
46:12
And I just want to, I want to know, like the fabric of this area, this region of the country, you know, what is, you know, what does this part look like?
And we take public transit a lot of times these places to get a sense of like, you know what, what does it look like to be walkable in these areas?
46:30
Yeah.
That's wonderful.
And is it OK to give your husband a shout out?
Oh, I will always shout out my wonderful husband, Tom Williams.
He works for, he works for Bart here in the Bay Area.
That's why we ended up moving to the Bay.
46:46
I mean, yeah, he worked, you know, in public transit in, in Portland as well.
But I think it's, you know, we've, we've, we've both really had this journey of first, you know, being young professionals, it was very ego driven.
You know, we were both wanted to work in the music industry.
47:01
You know, we, we did a, after a few months of dating, it's like early 2010, we went on a road trip together to go to South by Southwest.
And we wanted to, we wanted to write a book about the state of the music industry.
47:16
And I was going to design it and Tom was going to write it and it was going to be this whole thing.
And then as we started working on it, it's like this industry is icky and I don't feel good participating in it.
And as time has gone on, it's definitely been, we've, we've prioritized making professional decisions in our life that align more with our values and public service in our own way.
47:39
So Tom is a public servant in that way.
And I have a very I mean, I think a lot too, Like there was a trend with graphic designers where I'm a graphic designer don't follow in my path cautionary tale.
I'm miserable sort of thing.
47:55
It's such a terrible job.
And it's like we are so privileged to be able to like I get to sit in my home or my beautiful Co working space with beautiful people and to create gorgeous things for small businesses or I got to like make stickers for my friends, like scary scary movie podcast website recently.
48:15
And I'm just like, I get to like do this all this wonderful work.
And it's like, this is a joy.
This isn't something to look down upon.
And like, how can I use these, this privilege that I have of having a very cushy life, creating things and getting being paid to do that.
48:32
Like how could I, how could I, how could I serve and do that versus simply just for the next, you know, the next title or whatever that is?
Yeah, I'm so glad you you have that kind of realization or like, you know, this is actually good because I, I do agree.
48:52
I learned so much from comedy one-on-one.
And and like it's true because I didn't grow up here and most movies you show for me, it will be the first time I see them.
And the joy that I get may be different from folks who have seen a movie like 5-6 times.
49:13
Yeah.
But that kind of experience, you know, provided through you and Hollywood theater, that's like that's a lot, you know, and I feel like you said providing service for other people.
I, I mean, I do think when you say OK, privilege and you are a designer, like what am I doing here?
49:37
Some people have that question.
But for me, as someone who is close to art but not quite, I think art is a service to society.
Yes.
Art is so important and necessary.
49:54
I think without art, I don't think there will be life.
I completely agree.
I think, you know, art is one of the earliest forms of resistance.
And I think, you know, a lot of what we talk about on creative processing is, you know, there are these automated tools now that are looking to replace creative work.
50:15
And honestly, the whole, my whole podcast is just like a thesis and research on how humanity is integral in in art and creative work.
It's art makes life worth living.
50:30
It gives it flavour, it gives a complexity.
And I think being able to, you know, so, so lovely what you were saying about my comedy series.
And I just when I think about like, I just love to, to curate experiences for people to share connections with others.
50:49
And there's a lot of different ways that you can do that.
But with with the comedy series, I mean, it was it was born from, you know, we're going to I was going to start it right before the pandemic hit and, you know, had a little pause that for a little bit until it was safe to go into spaces with other people.
51:05
But you know, there's, there's a lot of, there's a lot of heaviness in the world and it's lovely to be able to support a, a local nonprofit theatre to bring people into a communal space where you can laugh and share joy and feel silly.
51:24
But it's also, you know, it's like, it's an intersection of like, you know, it's, you're making you laugh.
It's, it's funny, but also learning like where the director was at this point in their, in their career, You know, why was this actor chosen?
What, what process did the actors use to bring those characters to life?
51:43
What did the writing process look like?
To give some in context to why this has become a beloved or foundational comedy, How you know, something that existed in the 80s has influenced modern comedies and it's, it's a picture of American culture and not all of it is Christine by by any means.
52:07
There's a lot of things where you know, something that would have been.
I mean, there's some movies that I would love to show, but I I don't know how to really talk about them yet, like.
Jingle all the way.
Right.
Like, Oh my God.
I mean, I you.
Yeah.
I, I, I, I love Jingle all the Way so much.
52:28
It's so stupid.
It's so I love.
I love this.
Is.
Ridiculous.
Yeah, but being able to I mean, I think of like a big thing with me is like I I don't want to gatekeep.
And I think, you know, with the, there's a, with the podcast, with the comedy series, with even how I approach work with clients, it's there's transparency and there's no gatekeeping there of information.
52:55
You know, there are resources to be shared and it's more important to like just because I'm sharing information about how I do work or a resource that somebody else could use does not mean it's not a 0 sum game.
Like sharing this resource does not mean that person is now going to take away any potential work coming by way.
53:14
It's they'll use that information how they need to to improve their work style, whatever that is, Yeah. 100% I cannot agree more.
It's not a 0 sum game.
There is abundance for all of us.
53:30
Information should be available for people and like you said, it's a creative process.
You can take the information you have and create your own process and that's totally OK.
And I think that's a beautiful thing.
And I think about like, especially when it comes to like client work, you know, being not, not gatekeeping what my process looks like to clients is really important because I feel like, you know, in, in building trust, there's transparency.
53:58
So a lot of times I, I will walk through clients every step of my process down to like, here's what you can expect at this stage, here's what you'll be looking at.
And here's also probably what you're going to feel at this point.
54:14
Because at the start of every project, there's, there's strategy.
Like what are the goals that we're trying to achieve here?
What do we want the audience to feel?
But also having them understand, like, this is what you might feel at this point during the process, like in a logo project.
54:30
Like at this point, I liken it to, like, you got a big chunk of marble and you're constantly just chipping away at it until it forms into something that you can recognize.
And maybe at, like, the midway phase, like, this isn't looking how I thought it was going to look over going back to, like, what those original goals were.
54:46
And like, yes, you may feel like, I'm not sure if this is the right direction, but a lot of it is like, guiding and being transparent.
Like, yeah, that's OK to feel that way at this point.
We we, we bake into the process.
Like how where the humanity comes in and creative work in that way.
55:01
It's not just a science of like at this point, we'll come to this and then it's it's perfect.
And then we're here.
It's a lot of it is like understanding, like so much of what you're creating needs to be tied to how you're going to feel in the end and how you want your audience to feel.
Yeah, yeah, that's thank you so much.
55:21
I feel I I won't.
No.
I wanna see you again.
I'll be back.
I'll be back in Portland in November for my next comedy, One O 1.
I'm so excited for the next movie that I'm showing.
It's one of my favorites.
So you're not telling it yet.
55:37
That's OK.
I I can share, Yeah, I can share what it is I'm showing.
I think it's November 20th.
I'm showing Black Dynamite, which is it is a satire of 70s blaxploitation films.
55:54
It is a pitch perfect meticulous recreation of what those blaxploitation films were in the 70s.
So you're getting like really bad dialogue, You know, you're getting boom mics in the shots on purpose, but it's, it's also like showcasing like how incredible those films were.
56:17
The, the, the, the writer and the star of the film.
He's a martial artist to begin with and he's so funny.
And it's just, it is such a beautiful, perfect satire that is so, so, so funny.
56:32
I'm so excited to show Black Dynamite.
Again, that will be my first time to see.
It it's wonderful.
I love it.
I'm excited and as we wrap up our conversation, can you share where do people find you and follow your work and work with you?
56:49
Sure.
You can find me at my website, wordofmouthcreative.co.
I'm also on Instagram at Word of Mouth Creative and my podcast is on Instagram at Creatives Processing.
Yeah, you can find me in those places.
57:08
That is awesome and I will also put Comedy 101's link to the show notes as well and also Instagram too so.
Oh, they know I can, I can.
I can add Comedy One O 1 there too.
You can find Comedy One O 1 on Instagram at Comedy One O 1 Presents.
57:28
Oh, percents.
Cool.
Yeah, it was.
It was just PDX for a while, but since I moved to the Bay, I've been expanding it down here.
So there's I've been working with a few theaters down here to show some of the films in the repertoire that I've already shown in Hollywood, to show them down here too to a different audience.
57:47
Wow expansion, expansion, expansion.
Yeah, cool.
With that.
Let's wrap up today's chat and I look forward to seeing you again soon.
Oh my gosh, this is so thank you so much for having me and for giving me a platform.
58:07
Just talk a little bit about why I do what I do and I hope I sounded and lucid.
I feel very I feel like my head is like just floating above my body today after very little sleep this week.
58:23
So I hope this came off as clear and.
It's very clear and I think it's very thought provoking and inspiring and I think I share similar kind of feeling.
OK, The person did not come back and pick out the poop.
58:44
I'm just so.
Sad.
What are you gonna now?
What are you gonna do about it?
Are you gonna put like a little sign there?
So like, maybe they walk past it to be like shame.
Look.
Look at your shame.
I might have to I'm that is a sign.
Please pick up after your dog.
59:00
Yeah.
I mean I have a sign there, so and.
Then, you know, and then it kind of it, it comes back to like, OK, I, I try and always give other people grace, like maybe they forgot a poop bag and maybe they just got really wrapped up in their own stuff and they forgot to do it.
And at that point it's like, all right, do I just pick up the poop myself?
59:17
Because I think about my neighbors and I think about like, I don't want my neighbors to see poop on my lawn.
But.
But here's the thing, I have a question.
Is it on your lawn or is it like on the sidewalk side?
It's on my lawn.
Oh my God, burying.
How rude.
It's on my lawn.
59:33
I it's unfortunate, it's very unfortunate.
I have no words and it it's a Friday, OK.
And like why?
A tiny dog or a big dog?
Bigger than Henry.
Oh come on, so we got a big old poopy on your lawn.
59:51
I just OK listener.
Did you recognize the person?
No, I don't know this person, but now, OK, I will.
I will recognize them, this person and that dog.
We'll have a little chat.
1:00:07
We'll have a chat.
Yeah.
I, I'm, I'm really thankful that so much of this conversation was centered around poop.
I think that because, I mean, when I think about like comedy, one O 1, two, it's like it could be high level.
It could also be real lowbrow.
Like, you know, you could understand, like, you know, satire in the sense of political activism all the way down to like a well timed fart joke.
1:00:31
It's all comedy.
It's all laughable.
I know I agree.
And, you know, on that note, we, you know, we just have to, you know, I don't know, laugh about it.
OK, you too.
Yep, Yep.
Thank you so much for having me show.
1:00:49
Of course, thank you for coming and sending my love to you, Marty and Tom.
Right back at you with Darren and Henry.
OK, I will end the recording here.
Thank you for listening to today's episode of The Intersection.
1:01:06
We hope you enjoyed it and if you like our program, please subscribe and recommend it to your friends and family.
Our original music is created by my friend Kel Van Zon and I am your host and producer.
Zhoufang, see you next time and take care.