"Put Your Truth On The Page," with Susan Baracoo, on Helping Women Write Their First Books, Good Things Take Time, and Ghost Writing As Relational Work.

Zhou Fang: [00:00:00] All right, we're recording.

Susan Baracco: Wonderful.

Zhou Fang: Uh, let's get it started then. Um, hello everyone. Welcome to The Intersection, a podcast program about intersectionality, intersectional identities, and intersectional journeys. And as we know, every journey comes with a story, and we always have amazing storytellers coming to the program and share their own journeys with me and the audience.

And today, it's so cool, we have, like, um- Super experienced storyteller, like professional storyteller, on the program. I'm very stoked about it. Her name is Susan Barraco, and, uh, Susan and I met via LinkedIn actually, um, a while ago, maybe two years ago now. Um, 'cause Susan is a writer. She [00:01:00] helps, I think, professionals bring their stories into a book.

And she, uh, Susan herself is a published writer as well, and she's also a very seasoned editor. Um, and I think when we connected, we just had this kind of, I don't know, um, shared interest in storytelling, and I was fascinated by your role in helping writers share their story as a writer, like a ghostwriter, and also as a kind of advisor, 'cause you teach writers how to write, and also an editor.

Susan Baracco: Yes.

Zhou Fang: Um, so I'm very excited to have, uh, Susan share her story today. And so welcome, Susan, and tell us who you are in your own words. Thank you.

Susan Baracco: Thank you, thank you. Excuse me. Great to be here. I'm, really was looking forward to this conversation. Um, I love what you're doing here with this podcast. I [00:02:00] think it's just a, um, unique and interesting, and I'm sure that you're...

The, the folks who watch you regularly are finding that, that same thing. Mm-hmm. So I am grateful for, to be a guest. And I am a book... I am a book ghostwriter, and basically what that means is that I write people's books for them under their direction. So I specialize in working with women- Mm-hmm ... um, who are debut authors.

It's the first book they've ever written. They have no idea what they're getting into. It's a lot. It's a big journey, and I talk about it as a journey because it can take quite some time. I typically work with my clients for up to two plus years on their books, so two, maybe even up to three. Um, most of the time I become friends with the women that I support, uh- Yeah

through this journey. It's an intimate thing to do with someone, is to listen to their story and then translate it to the page. So, um, but it is an amazing, amazing, um, career. It's an amazing, [00:03:00] um, thing that I feel I've, I've been put here to do. So it's, it's pretty special. Mm-hmm. And, uh, I couldn't imagine doing anything else.

Wow. So, um, yeah, it's a lot of fun.

Zhou Fang: That's awesome. And you mentioned specifically you work with women, especially folks who are writing their first books or trying to publish their first books. It's kind, it, it's kind of a niche. So tell me, like, how did you land on that niche?

Susan Baracco: I think, good question. I actually had, um, I was working at the time, this was several years ago- I've been at this for about 10 years, and right around the time that I got started, I had been working with a gentleman who was, um...

He was a business coach, but I was working to support him. I was actually running a couple of his coaching programs, small group coaching programs, and, um, so I was kind of a, a contractor for his, his business and great guy. And he and I were chatting, we're talking about my work and what I was doing, and he said, "You know, you really ought to focus [00:04:00] just on women and, um, working just with women."

And I, and I said to him, "And eliminate half the world's population? Are you sure that's a good idea?" It felt really uncomfortable to me, but he said that because I had had a background in working with women up to that point. I'd been a business coach for several years, and I specialized in working with women.

I also led, I've led several Um, uh, I was a chair of a, a, a large international organization. I, I led a local, um, uh, uh, chapter of the Women Presidents Organization for about four and a half years-

Zhou Fang: Mm-hmm ...

Susan Baracco: uh, here in the city where I live, and, um, that was a really awesome experience. Um, and I've also done, um, a lot of work.

I just started kind of go- going in that direction, and once I, once I made that change, I realized he was right. It was really the, [00:05:00] the work that I wanted to be doing, um, simply because, um... And I mean no disrespect to anyone, but, um, men have lots of resources for whatever they want to do, and I felt that specializing in working with women wouldn't just be unique, but would be helpful.

Mm-hmm. I find that, um, certainly even w- you know, our experience when we first met and started talking, we clicked immediately, and- Mm-hmm ... were comfortable together, and just started sharing stories and talking to each other. And I think women do tend to do that. They feel a sense of kindred spirit.

Sometimes we connect very easily, and- Mm-hmm ... I think that's the case. And I also work with a lot of women who are immigrants to the United States.

Zhou Fang: Mm.

Susan Baracco: And lately I've been talking to women in different parts of the world who have im- have, um, moved from their home countries to different countries. Uh, recently spoke with a woman who was originally, um, from the UK, m- relocated to Dubai with her husband.

Kind of an interesting story. So I've, I've, I've been [00:06:00] working with and talking with women about their experiences as they move from different, between different cultures- Mm-hmm ... and what that's like. And I personally have a, um, a sweet spot for that. I, I'm just, I'm fascinated by that experience and how very challenging it can be- Mm-hmm

and, and what they discover about other places, and about themselves.

Zhou Fang: Yeah. And it's- That's really cool. I mean- It- ... that's how stories happen, right? Mm-hmm. And, uh, uh, as we move through the world, sometimes quite literally, and then we encounter different people and events, and then we have a story.

Susan Baracco: Yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely. And it's interesting, too, to watch it- Grow and evolve. So- Mm-hmm ... your soul might have started in one place, but every time, say you have a transformation, um, when you make a, make a change, and those transformations tend to keep coming. And that's what, um, w- all humans have that, that experi- experience where they're, they're making big shifts in their lives, and [00:07:00] it just...

I, I think sometimes we underestimate the, um, uh, the impact of a change. Mm-hmm. Uh, certainly with me, you were asking me before we came on about, um- Yeah ... that when we moved- Yeah ... across and I, I, I did the same thing. I do this for a living, but I was underestimating just the... Even though I didn't move very far from where I was-

Zhou Fang: Mm-hmm

um,

Susan Baracco: I underestimated the impact that it would have on me and, um, and, and, uh, my life and the way I was living my life. And it's not a bad thing, it's just the difference is something to step back and observe and figure out how to, how to manage and, and navigate through them.

Zhou Fang: Totally. I mean, we're talking about the kind of physical moving and also, like, emotional and spiritual moving as well.

Susan Baracco: That's

Zhou Fang: right. 'Cause a- after you have been at a place for a while, there's a, a bond between you and the place. Or sometimes it's like, "I really need to get out of this place."

Susan Baracco: Very true.

Zhou Fang: You know? Very. Very. [00:08:00] There's, like, a lot of, like, emotional responses to the movements we make in life. I, I think about every time I go visit my family in China, there's this, like, a real reentra- reentry culture respon- Yes

responses that I have, uh, every time I learn something new about my home country, and then myself as well. Um, so definitely travel just, it's so rich. It's like it gives us so much to digest and reflect on.

Susan Baracco: Absolutely.

Zhou Fang: Um, remind me when you started working with woman authors, like, when was that? Like, when did you start doing that?

Susan Baracco: Uh, about 10 years ago, so maybe 2016 or so-

Zhou Fang: Wow ... '

Susan Baracco: 17, something like that. And, um, actually ended up, I took a course.

Zhou Fang: Mm.

Susan Baracco: Uh, uh, some colleagues of me, and I started out as a copywriter. I was writing-

Zhou Fang: Okay ...

Susan Baracco: um, short form, [00:09:00] um, all different types of short form, um, articles, and I was writing, I was doing web copy, I was doing, uh, blog posts, things of that nature.

Zhou Fang: Mm.

Susan Baracco: And it took, uh, a f- a colleague of mine suggested this ghost writing for books, and I said, "I've never written a book, I guess, but that would be an interesting course to take." So I took it. Mm-hmm. It was something, it was a short, just a one-day. And the, uh, gentleman who was leading it was a successful business book ghost writer, and he and I hit it off.

He was a great guy. It was virtual. It was a virtual, um, uh, course, but we just, we just connected, and he ended up sending me an email about two months after the class, and he said, "There's this client that I've been working with, this woman. She's fabulous. I've written her book, but she wants to do something personal with a story about her grandmother.

Will you talk to her?" And I said- Mm ... "Yes, I would." Um, and she and I had a great conversation, and she hired me, and she was my first client, and, uh, a gift for sure. It was really a wonderful [00:10:00] experience. She was fabulous. Her story was fabulous. And that's kinda how I got into this, um, got into this work.

Zhou Fang: Mm. I mean, the power of human connection.

Susan Baracco: It's amazing. It's, and it's something that I, I hope never changes. That we will always be able to, um... There's a lot of things that are changing in our world right now- I know. And

Zhou Fang: I hope we- Yeah. It is true. Yeah. Uh, that's very interesting. Yeah. I think nothing can replace the human connection. I, I believe that.

Mm-hmm. Um, I mean, not just a human connection, just con- just like a real connection in general. Absolutely. It's like nothing can replace the, um, kind of like when we touch our pets, you can't replace that touch. I agree. You can't replace that playing- Yeah ... and that bond between you and your animals. Mm-hmm.

And also our connection to nature, I don't think anything can replace that.

Susan Baracco: Yeah. Yeah.

Zhou Fang: Um, the real kind of, um, [00:11:00] even the physical connection we have to this world, um, I truly believe that. And I, I was talking to a, uh, a CEO of a tech company that is AI forward. Okay. And even the CEO was like, "AI is a tool. It cannot be the author."

Like, she literally said, uh, "I, I want to read books that are written by real humans." Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. "I don't want to read a book written by AI. I want AI to be a tool, but I don't want AI to be the author." Great. So even, like, tech- Mm-hmm ... you know, executives, they understand the value of, um, humans. And I think right now there is just a lot of noises out there.

Susan Baracco: Mm-hmm. So

Zhou Fang: I feel whatever that's going on out there, um, at very large scale- I think we can still take that with a grain of salt. Like- Yeah ... don't panic.

Susan Baracco: I love your, [00:12:00] your, um, perspective, and thank you for that. Thank you.

Zhou Fang: Yeah, yeah. I- '

Susan Baracco: Cause people are panicking. It's hard not to. It is hard. And understandably.

It's, it's something we've never quite seen before on this scale. Mm-hmm. And I think that's what makes it so uncomfortable.

Zhou Fang: Yeah, it is very uncom- And it's very scary. Mm. Um, but I think you, like, where you are, I feel the need is so strong. Like, you are helping first-time woman authors publish their first book.

It's so precious. Like- It is ... can you imagine the kind of care and trust that goes into this work? I mean, you can, of course.

Susan Baracco: I can. I can. Um- I think it's, um, interesting, um, I always tell my, uh, my authors, "It's okay." Uh, uh, but I, it's often that they say to me, "You know me better than my husband," or my spouse, or- Yeah

just like, my, my partner doesn't even know this much about me.

Zhou Fang: Yeah. Um,

Susan Baracco: and, and when I said that [00:13:00] the, that the, um, at the beginning, that it's an intimate, um, relationship, it really is. Um, and it's really built on trust. We, they have to trust me, and I am, 99% of the time, I'm a complete stranger when we first meet.

Zhou Fang: Mm-hmm.

Susan Baracco: So one of the things that I've, um, I think I've honed over the years, especially since, uh, the pandemic, but prior to the pandemic, I was doing, I was working with, uh, women from all around the world, and I still do. So I've been on Zoom for a very long time, a lot longer. Mm. The, the pandemic kind of pushed us all-

Zhou Fang: Mm

in that

Susan Baracco: direction. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but I learned early on how to make a connection-

Zhou Fang: Mm ...

Susan Baracco: with someone on, across, across a video screen, and it's- Really? ... it's, it's uncomfortable, I think. Yeah. Especially in the beginning when the pandemic first hit, and some people never, didn't even know Zoom existed-

Zhou Fang: Mm-hmm ...

Susan Baracco: and then started having to use it.

And so I, that was [00:14:00] something that I realized I need to Um, make sure that I do this the right way and that my clients feel safe- Mm-hmm ... um, and that I make it a safe space for them to share their vulnerabilities, because that's what people wanna read about too when it comes to storytelling.

Zhou Fang: Right.

Susan Baracco: Yeah. You know, when we're, we're talking about- Mm

storytelling, I think the willingness to be, um, open and vulnerable is something that really endears people to you as a speaker, as an author, um, anywhere that you are in places where you're, you're sharing honestly what your experience has been, um, that's what draws people in.

Zhou Fang: Mm. That's beautiful. Yeah. Um, and you started being a ghostwriter in 2016, but I imagine you started writing way before that.

You probably have always been a writer, 'cause we chatted before, you were talking about journaling and just writing down your own thoughts, et [00:15:00] cetera. Like, when did writing become a thing for you?

Susan Baracco: So I was pretty young, uh, when I started writing. I was a kid, and I used it as a form of self-soothing- Mm ... in difficult situations.

As we all know, growing up can be, um, challenging. It can be scary. Yeah. It can be a lot of things for us even if we have a, a really great, strong family- Yeah ... environment. Um, it can still be challenging, you know? Mm-hmm. Because you're going out into the world as a child, you're trying to get along with other kids, you're trying to figure your way in the world.

And, um, so I started journaling pretty young. I started story writing pretty young. And pretty young as in maybe s- eight years old, 10 years old. Mm. Somewhere in that neighborhood I started doing some writing, and then as I got into my teens it was, it was a place, um, it was a safe place for me-

Zhou Fang: Mm ...

Susan Baracco: to go and just sort things [00:16:00] out on the page, and I started doing that pretty early for myself.

And then, um, just it, it... We called it a diary back then. We kept diaries. Um- ... called them journals, but it's the same thing. It was just telling, you know, sharing what I was going through, what I was experiencing, what I was confused about, whatever the case may be. But just putting, as I like to call it now, like putting my truth, um, my truth on the page.

Just putting what's true for me today. What, what did I experience, and how did I experience it, and, and what's true for me regardless of what the world is telling me I should think or do, or my parents are telling me I should think or do, or my friends, whoever's trying to influence me. What's, what's true for me?

And that's what I encourage my clients to do from a journal. Mm. Is what's true for you? Mm.

Zhou Fang: Once

Susan Baracco: you put it on the page.

Zhou Fang: Do you still... I mean, that's wonderful. I think always go back to, uh, the why, right? Like why are you doing this? Like, what speaks [00:17:00] truth to you? And, um, so that's really powerful. Uh, do you still have your journals from before?

Susan Baracco: Uh, I have a couple. I have one that I started, believe it or not, I started, I was, um, s- 30 years old. 30, yeah. I started running. I'm a runner. Mm. And I started running, uh, not long after my son, my first child, was born. And I t- I, they had, I had bought a, this little spiral bound running journal specifically to, to sh- to record, you know, how far you ran and how you felt and what the t- what weather was like and that kind of thing, just to, and to detail it, and I still love opening that.

It's 30 years old.

Zhou Fang: Aw.

Susan Baracco: Over 30 years old, and I still love opening that and reading about the very first time I ran more than three miles, um, how I felt, 'cause I captured how I, you're like, "Wow, I didn't think I could do that." And, um, you know, I went [00:18:00] on to, to start running, um, half marathons. It's the, the longest distance I've run, and I've competed in a couple over the years and, um, just great fun.

But it's, I, it's always such a gift to go back and, um, and look at that. And something I would actually recommend- Hmm ...

Zhou Fang: I don't know if

Susan Baracco: you're gonna be able to see this. I hope you can see this. It's, uh, not zooming in. It's a five-year journal.

Zhou Fang: Oh, wow.

Susan Baracco: You can buy this on, um, Amazon. That's where I get it, actually, and I'll share with you, and I don't know if you're gonna be able to see this.

Yeah, it's very blurry unfortunately. But so it's literally five years, but each year- Oh,

Zhou Fang: yeah ...

Susan Baracco: each day only has... Yeah, if I zoom out a little bit, this one's bad. Um, only has about five lines that you can write- So for that particular day, so ... And I have, this is my second one. I'm in the last- Oh ... I'm in the last year.

So I've been doing this for, um, 10 years also, round about the time- Really? ... that I started. [00:19:00] Oh. But what I love about that is that it, it's a condensed space. Oh. So it forces you to be really selective. So I put down-

Zhou Fang: Yes, I love that ...

Susan Baracco: I put down usually, like, what the temperature was in the morning, what the weather was like.

Did, you know, did I go for a five-mile run or what I did today. And then I just, just you, you have to be really selective and really thoughtful-

Zhou Fang: Hmm ... 'cause

Susan Baracco: you don't have so much space.

Zhou Fang: Hmm.

Susan Baracco: And then the- That's a good one ... my favorite thing is going back and you're ... So I'm at the bottom of the page. I'm in the fifth year of this five-year journal.

I can see what I did on this day- Four ... for the last four years, and it's really super fun. It's actually a fun thing, 'cause I use this a little more lightheartedly. Uh-huh. Just I had a great dinner at this restaurant, or I had this fabulous visit with a friend I haven't seen in a long time. Something that just the highlight of my day, the things that were-

Zhou Fang: Hmm

Susan Baracco: or if there's something really, um, challenging that I'm going through, I might put in, "Today was a really hard day."

Zhou Fang: Mm-hmm.

Susan Baracco: Um, or maybe, you know, every time I've [00:20:00] moved, I, you know, ugh, I'm so exhausted today. I'm sick of packing boxes and that kind of thing. Mm-hmm. Um, but you can have some fun with it. It's- Yeah

it, it's a great tool. Hmm. And even if you don't fill out every day, I'm pretty, pretty faithful to it. I, I tend to, to write in every day. But when I travel- Mm ... I was traveling a lot in the first five-year journal that I had, so it's really fun to go back to, "Oh, that's right. I forgot I went to that city or to that country."

Zhou Fang: Hmm.

Susan Baracco: Just a great way to jot down a quick couple of thoughts, a sentence or two about, you know, what was the best thing about my day or was the hardest thing, depending on-

Zhou Fang: That's amazing.

Susan Baracco: Yeah, it's cool.

Zhou Fang: Um- I mean, I have a bunch of thoughts around it. Mm. I think, I mean, of course, obviously it, it, um, it helps you with the writing habit, right?

Make sure you write something every day, put down your thoughts, things like that, or how you feel or experience. And I also feel it's such a great thing to, if you decide [00:21:00] to leave it to your family, it's such a great gift to your family. It's a, yes, yes. Like, to your children and, and they're like, "Oh, what was Susan doing, I don't know, in 2022- On this day

on that day?" On your birthday,

Susan Baracco: right? Or your, you know, or something so important, you know, milestone kind of a day. I think, too, what I love about the five-year journal is that it's not intimidating. Mm. So when I talk to people about journaling, "Ugh, I'm not a writer. I couldn't, you know, I can't journal."

There's five s- there's five lines. You can put down- It

Zhou Fang: can be five lines ...

Susan Baracco: the weather and what you had for breakfast if you want or whatever. I mean, you can put down anything you want. But it's not... It's, it keeps you from having to feel overburdened-

Zhou Fang: Mm-hmm ...

Susan Baracco: by, "Ugh, I gotta write now. I gotta fill a whole page or something."

Not the case. Yeah. It's really nice. It's a nice way to get into journaling.

Zhou Fang: I love that. And I will mention another thing is I think these kind of, um, gradual practice, to me is like... 'Cause in modern life, [00:22:00] everything's, like, fast, right? You want to get it, you want to rush. But then you're like, actually, the next five years, um, this is literally this one book- Wonder

this journal.

Susan Baracco: Mm.

Zhou Fang: You just have that one thing. You, like, nothing's, you are not in a hurry. You are just go back to it every day, hopefully, and write down a few words. And to me, that's like a whole book of abundance- Um, 'cause you cannot rush your abundance. Yeah. And in today's society it's like, it looks like we have a lot, but that's actually not abundance.

That's actually fear-driven-

Susan Baracco: Yes ...

Zhou Fang: actions.

Susan Baracco: Yeah.

Zhou Fang: I agree. Um-

Susan Baracco: I

Zhou Fang: agree. Yeah. So I really appreciate that. I think I'm gonna find one for myself as well. Um, 'cause I do have a lot of thoughts, and I, I, I record them sometimes, I put them down sometimes, but I haven't had a kind of like a good habit of keeping track of

Susan Baracco: them.

Mm-hmm. It's a really wonderful [00:23:00] way, especially if you're... I would, I recommend it for people who maybe are looking at making a big move. Maybe they're looking to move overseas to a dif- you know, completely different country, or they're getting, they're coming up on, um, maybe they're thinking about getting married or, you know, there's some big thing that's coming up and that may, you know, take ti- over time.

It's a really great thing to have to then be able to go back, like you were saying- Hmm ... reflect on. That was really interesting. How was I feeling today? You could do something simple like just you use a scale of one to five. Hmm. How happy was I today? Was I a one?

Zhou Fang: Ah.

Susan Baracco: Was I, was I a beast, or was I a five?

Today was like a five-star day, it was so great. You know, and then just use something simple like that to give you as a prompt. Mm-hmm. Just think, "Hmm, okay, so where was I on a scale of one to five today? Well, today was a pretty good day." Right? Yeah. And why? And then you could jot down why, you know, it was the best thing about the day or something along those lines, so.

Zhou Fang: That's a good tip. Thank you for that. Mm-hmm. Um, do you recommend these, uh, journaling or [00:24:00] five-year journal to your clients as well?

Susan Baracco: I do, yeah.

Zhou Fang: Yeah.

Susan Baracco: The five-year journal is, is something that is, I was introduced to obviously about 10 years ago.

Zhou Fang: Mm-hmm.

Susan Baracco: And, um, it was as part of a, a- a health program. And so it was intended, the intention was for you to write down just, you know, how did things go for you today?

Did you take care of yourself? Did you choose your food wisely? Did you sleep well enough? Did you get the exercise you wanted? You know, it was to... So it was intended to just kind of cluster that kind of a focus, um, each day. And did you, you know, did you go to the gym or did you go out for a run or whatever the case may be.

Um, so if you have something like that, that you're thinking, "This would be a good way for me to track year to year," and just again, deeply personal. I, I don't- who knows what will happen to these? Um, I'm gonna keep them and keep, you know, filling them out. But I do recommend them, um, a- again, because it's a easy...

It's not a big having to write a full page. Many of the people that I work with, the women I work [00:25:00] with, don't have time.

Zhou Fang: Mm.

Susan Baracco: Lots of sitting and writing, um, it's a treat. Mm. And a real, um... Sometimes it's, it's unusual for them to find the time-

Zhou Fang: I

Susan Baracco: see ... to do a lot of writing. So this is a, an easy way to, you know, to capture just some thoughts and quick things so that you don't lose the most important things that you wanna perhaps share.

And I agree, like a gift to someone at the end of five years. What a, what a cool way if you're, if you're having a baby, um, and- That is cool ... you wanna start from day one or, you know, from the moment that you found out, from the day that you found out that you, you know, are gonna be having a child, to start recording what your thoughts were, what you were feeling, what you were experiencing.

It would be a really cool gift to then give to that child at some point down the road.

Zhou Fang: Totally. I mean, even your partner, like-

Susan Baracco: Mm.

Zhou Fang: I mean, if they'll read it, that's another question.

Susan Baracco: Yeah.

Zhou Fang: That... It's just a, such a cool, I don't wanna say legacy, but it's just some- it's, it's a, it's a gift that you can leave [00:26:00] behind.

I find that cool. Um, so I was also thinking about, you know, you mentioned you started running, uh, around age 30 after you had your first child.

Susan Baracco: I was 32. Yep.

Zhou Fang: Yeah, 32. And what motivated you to do that? Like, people can... Well, because... Okay, so back up a little bit. So you started being a ghostwriter 10 years ago.

Yes. 10 years is a long time, but it's not that long.

Susan Baracco: It's not.

Zhou Fang: Like, you'd entirely changed your career, I don't know, in your 50s or something?

Susan Baracco: Yes.

Zhou Fang: Or, like, early 50s. Mm-hmm. So okay, to anyone out there who's like, "I don't want- ... to do this anymore. I want a different career," but is it too late? Uh, it's never too late.

Uh-

Susan Baracco: It's not.

Zhou Fang: It's not. Mm-hmm ... you can start it in your 40s, in your 50s, in your 60s.

Susan Baracco: I agree.

Zhou Fang: Do it.

Susan Baracco: Agree.

Zhou Fang: Um, so that's one. And two, again, you started running after 30, like 30- at 32. Mm-hmm. It's like usually people [00:27:00] think about runners as, like, I started running when I was 15. I don't know.

Susan Baracco: High school.

Zhou Fang: Um-

Susan Baracco: Yeah.

Zhou Fang: So what motivated you to start running at the age of

Susan Baracco: 32? Well, well, I ran in, um, both high school and college. I was actually on, um, sports teams and, um, and I hated it.

Zhou Fang: Okay.

Susan Baracco: I hated running. I really did. And, um, when- My son was born. I decided... It was partly because I had put on extra weight, so I thought, "This is gonna be a great way to, um, to lose weight."

Mm-hmm. But I wanted something that I could do that was, um, a low investment. I didn't have time to go to the gym. I had a baby, and I was also running a business at the time. So I was like, "I have got to be able to sneak this in, you know? This is something..." So I, it just m- it met a lot of the requirements that I needed, and I started running it, running to, to get exercise, to get back, you know, to get healthy [00:28:00] again and get, kinda get back in shape.

Um, and what I realized is that as I started to just relax into it, I really started to fall in love with it.

Zhou Fang: And- Hmm.

Susan Baracco: Hmm ... I, that was, um, not something I was expecting because I wasn't running, I wasn't doing laps or something somewhere where g- I had to do it for, you know, the sport I was in or whatever.

It was, this was just... What I found was that it got me outside, and I was just enjoying, like, "Oh, I..." So even to today, if I go out for a run, I'm always looking at flowers. Like, what is the next- Yes ... what do people got in their front yard? Ooh, I like that bush. I gotta find out what that is so that I can grow it.

Mm-hmm. I wanna do that too. In my yard or something. So I'm always admiring people's landscaping and-

Zhou Fang: Mm-hmm ...

Susan Baracco: flower gardens in particular. It's fun, just... And I just found that, um, that was something that as, over time it's like, I'm outside, I'm alone, I'm just, uh, out in nature. It was just a really important thing.

It started to become more important. Um, I never expected to [00:29:00] be doing it this long. I'm blessed to be able to do it this long. Not everybody can do that.

Zhou Fang: Yeah. I mean, I mean, I do that too, but I go for walks. I walk my dog, like- Mm-hmm ... two, three times a day, or sometimes walk by myself. What I've been noticing recently, uh, in the Pacific Northwest is, you know, I'm seeing more bees, which is delightful.

Susan Baracco: Wonderful, yeah.

Zhou Fang: So, and, and we also have wonderful, like, front yard gardens in our neighborhoods. Mm-hmm. Which is lovely 'cause people are not keeping the thing in their backyard, like, no one can see, but people are, like, planting things in their front yard so all the neighbors can- Enjoy it ... enjoy them. Mm-hmm.

Um, so, like, on my walks, I just every day I, I find or I encounter these bees that they're just, it's just so lovely. It is. It's just like you sit... You, you stand there, you watch them for like 30 seconds. You're just like, "Mm, okay, everything's fine."

Susan Baracco: Yeah. Very [00:30:00] true. Yeah. And they're so important to our, um, to our ecosystem.

Mm-hmm. They're so sure important, so yeah. It's

Zhou Fang: great to see. Absolutely. Yeah, I love that. And I also feel, you know- Again, this isn't about how old someone is- Mm-hmm ... or how much experience someone has. But I think from our conversation so far, um, one takeaway I have is, you know, reflecting on my own journey, is that, uh, good things take time.

Susan Baracco: Yes.

Zhou Fang: Um, if we want something that's truly speaking about, you know, what is your truth, right? If we want something that speaks true to us, that's like valuable to our own being, then we need to be okay with taking time to do it. Absolutely. 'Cause good things take time.

Susan Baracco: Mm-hmm. Indeed they do. Indeed they do.

Yeah. And even with writing, you know, writing, uh, as I say, to, you know, putting your [00:31:00] truth on the page, sometimes you're not really quite sure.

Zhou Fang: Mm.

Susan Baracco: I think that we get a little wrapped up in what we're told is the, is should be true for us. Mm-hmm. Um, what... Or it's, maybe it's a cultural pressure or family pressure or, you know, maybe a career type of a pressure or something that, "Oh, I'm supposed to like this," or, "Everybody tells me I'm good at it."

Um, and I think it, it's a great place to go and discover what your truth actually is. Mm-hmm. What is that for you? You know, even discovering about yourself, maybe someone who's, you know, maybe unsure of their sexuality or- Mm-hmm ... some other part of, "Geez, do I really ever wanna be a mom? I don't even know if I wanna be a mom now or some- or, or ever," or that kind of...

So these big, bigger life questions that, you know, society is telling us we should be this or that. They're trying to fit us in a box. But for me- Mm-hmm ... going to the page means discovering, like, what really is true for me. Maybe I, maybe I don't wanna do that. Maybe that's not me. [00:32:00] Maybe I'm not- And, and I think a lot of that has wonderfully changed over time.

You know, it's just, talking about not wanting to be married or not wanting to have children, that was just taboo. Same thing with coming out as gay. My goodness. Mm-hmm. You never talked about that. And it's, it's just- Mm ... amazing to see how that has evolved to a point where now it's, it's, it's more widely accepted, not fully, but, but more widely accepted.

And-

Zhou Fang: Mm-hmm ...

Susan Baracco: it's an important, using your journal as a place to explore what you're really all about and get to know yourself is probably the most important thing, you know, most important thing you can use as a tool to, to learn, get to know yourself.

Zhou Fang: Absolutely. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it is good to see progress being made.

Um, I mean, we see so much negativity out there, rightfully so. At the same time, there's so much progress we are making just collectively, and I feel we should pay attention [00:33:00] to that as well- Mm ... and celebrate it. Um, and another thing is, like you mentioned, taboo kind of topics in our society, and they are being kind of breaking down right now, which is a good thing.

Another thing I feel that could be helpful if folks want to write to express yourself is to, um- You know, 'cause I think grief has become a pretty big topic right now. Mm-hmm. And for folks who are not comfortable with grieving publicly, perhaps journaling and writing can be a way for people to exper- to grieve properly.

Susan Baracco: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Powerful tool. Yeah. Again, a safe place. Um, s- you know, something that you keep to yourself. Perhaps you're, you know, you're, you're journaling. I tell people, you know, hide your, hide your journal someplace that you know no one will find it. You know, be, be thoughtful and, and, and wise about that, [00:34:00] um, so that you can be honest.

Zhou Fang: Mm.

Susan Baracco: Or, or turn around and, and burn those pages as soon as you write them, you know? Mm. That's a... There's a, there's, um, rituals that I have seen in and around this where-

Zhou Fang: Mm ...

Susan Baracco: write something that they're maybe ashamed of or afraid of, or something that's really painful for them. Y- you write it on a piece of paper, and then you take that and you burn it.

And it's-

Zhou Fang: Mm.

Susan Baracco: And then watch the, as the flames and the smoke go up thinking, you know... And, and, and as a way to kind of work through those feelings of re- and releasing those feelings if, if you're feeling stuck with them. But it's, uh, a popular, um, uh, tool in therapy for folks-

Zhou Fang: Mm-hmm ...

Susan Baracco: to, you know, to use writing.

I love

Zhou Fang: that.

Susan Baracco: And,

Zhou Fang: yeah. Yeah. It f- it sounds cathartic.

Susan Baracco: It is. It can be. Yeah. Yeah. If you give into it. If you give into it. You have to be willing- Mm-hmm. Yeah ... to put it just on the page. But I often- Mm ... burn, burn what you've written if you really don't want anyone to see [00:35:00] it. Mm. And re- write it again. If it, if it was that helpful- Mm

and you want it back, go write it again. Mm. You know, you can always rewrite it. Wow. So.

Zhou Fang: That is powerful.

Susan Baracco: Mm.

Zhou Fang: Um, I'm curious, you know, in your tenure of, um, writing, advising, teaching, and editing, is there any book or subject that really kind of like this is great, like makes you feel super proud, or like do you have a favorite kind of book or subject?

Susan Baracco: Oh my goodness. I work with, um, people a lot on memoir-

Zhou Fang: Mm ...

Susan Baracco: and s- I guess thought leadership to a certain extent. I find that, um, memoir has really evolved, which is, is very cool. Um, it takes on lots of different forms, and so there's things like a prescriptive memoir, which [00:36:00] is I tell my story of what I went through and then I give you suggestions for if you're in the same situation, how to handle it.

You know, what to avoid, what to do, what not to do, that kind of thing. Um, I think, uh, my favorite book that I've worked on is, um, called Dream Weaver. It's on my website, but you certainly can find it on Amazon. And, um- Mm ... it's a woman from China who moved to the US when she was 25. She spoke maybe two or three words in English.

Zhou Fang: Wow.

Susan Baracco: And moved to, she landed in San Francisco with her, with her husband, who was there to go to law school. And she left a very successful entrepreneurial career in, um, Beijing, came here, and was all of a s- literally overnight... It's a great story. It's, it was a fun story to write, and it's a beautiful story, but literally overnight she was reduced to a two-year-old.

She couldn't communicate. [00:37:00]

Zhou Fang: Mm. She

Susan Baracco: couldn't leave the house safely because she couldn't communicate, and she didn't know where she was. She get up, and she's never been to the city before. So all of a sudden she was, it was as if she was two years old, and to- completely reliant on someone else to take her to a pl- to the grocery store, or take her to the library, or to show her around, or to communicate even if sh- you know, she needed to go to see a doctor or something.

And so it's this beautiful story of her- Coming to this country, making it through all of that, um, ending up in New York City and starting her own, own business fr- with her life savings, and, um, today that business is I think $200 million a year, um, business. It's in retail-

Zhou Fang: Wow ...

Susan Baracco: consumer goods. Brilliant woman, amazing story.

It's just something that, you know, when she started out when we first met, and she was talking to me, she said, "I just wanna write, [00:38:00] um, my story for my son." She has one child, her, her only son, who just started college this, this past fall. And, um, she wanted to just make sure that he had an understanding of what her life was like back in China and everything that she'd been through.

She wanted to share it for him. As we wrote the book, that changed. Mm-hmm. And so we still wrote the same, more or less the same story, but what she realized is that her story could help so many, so many people, so many women in particular, women who are coming from Asia to the US and trying- Mm-hmm ... to find their way and, and, and- Mm-hmm

wanna be entrepreneurs. So she has since started a foundation where she mentors, um, Asian, um, women and young women who come and want to learn how to start a business. And so she's been, she's ... It's completely changed her life. It's really an interesting, interesting journey, for sure-

Zhou Fang: Mm-hmm ... um,

Susan Baracco: from where she wanted, what she thought she would be doing with the book [00:39:00] to where, where it ended up.

So that's one I'm particularly proud of because it's a, a, a beautiful story.

Zhou Fang: Mm-hmm. I

Susan Baracco: love the story after the book, of- Oh ... her going on and helping others, turning around and using this. And she travels the world and speaks about it, and she's just, she's a pretty dynamic person, and, uh- Wow ... has done a lot.

So n- and not what she ever saw happening. She remained open to the possibilities and it was ... it's been, it's been quite a journey for her. Really beautiful.

Zhou Fang: That's so cool. I mean, I love the title too, Dream Weaver.

Susan Baracco: Yes. Yes. Yeah. And it is based on, um, her m- her grandmother had a weaving loom, and they lived in a one, one-room hut.

And her grandmother would, she had this, this ... It wasn't big. It was s- they would ... She would just sit on the floor and weave material. And when her grandmother wasn't around, she would get on the loom and try to do it, and mess it all up. And so, um, uh, the, the story, the Dream Weaver [00:40:00] comes from her grandmother sitting there and weaving and telling her stories and teaching her things, and this relationship sh- that she built, and then how she- pulled threads that she got from those experiences through her, with her through her life.

So each thread that she brought with her gave her something different, uh, in her life. And it's, so it's a really beautiful story- Mm ... um, based on, on that- Yeah ... and that's kind of like The Dream Weaver comes from, but it's, it's a very cool story.

Zhou Fang: That's awesome. Yeah. Now I wanna check it out. Cool.

Susan Baracco: You will enjoy it.

It's very inspiring. It's very, very inspiring. Yeah. Yeah. She, she, um, she goes through some pretty difficult times, um, even after she comes to this country, definitely some challenges, and she, you know, talks about all of that and, and then how she builds her business and all the challenges that, that, that she faces there.

Um, but, uh, she just hung onto the, as she says, you know, she just hung onto the threads that she knew would help her, you know, the ones that, that she carried through. [00:41:00] Um, and, uh, really cool. So very cool story.

Zhou Fang: I love it. I, I think the fact that, you know, she had a amazing journey and story, and you helped her realize that.

Mm-hmm. And to me, that's just- You know, how do we foster these kind of relationships is what I think about. Mm-hmm. It's like, um, it's not either I do it or you do it. It's you do it together.

Susan Baracco: Absolutely.

Zhou Fang: So I feel there is this, um, partnership. Mm-hmm. The kind of collectiveness goes into, um, writing, and I th- I think that actually becomes more rare in today's society.

Susan Baracco: I think

Zhou Fang: so. Um, so I think this is a really great example of, like, when we come together, we can create beautiful things. [00:42:00]

Susan Baracco: Absolutely. I agree.

Zhou Fang: Yeah. So thank you for sharing that. Yep. I am inspired to check it out, for sure.

Susan Baracco: Yes.

Zhou Fang: Um, as we kind of, uh, coming to, uh, the end of our, our conversation, I mean, I f- I feel...

Yeah, I would love to keep talking with you- ... so, for sure. Um, 'cause there is a podcast called Wiser Than Me. I don't know if you heard of- No, no ... it. It's called W- Wiser Than Me. Mm-hmm. It's, uh, gosh, Ju- I think her name Ju- Uh, it was, it's hosted by the actor in, uh, the lead actor in the Veep, the comedy, the, the, the V- the...

What's her name? She, she's very famous. Uh, Julia something. Um, she's a, a comic, and she's very funny. But the podcast is called Wiser Than Me, so [00:43:00] she talks to women specifically who have been through things.

Susan Baracco: Okay.

Zhou Fang: Um, they are usually, you know, 50 years and older, and comes with just wonderful stories. Mm. Like, hilarious as well.

Okay. Or sometimes it's, like, right out ridiculous. Like, or, like, embarrassing or ridiculous, but all of them are just so rich in wisdom. Um, and, and I think our conversation reminded me of that podcast- Interesting ... is, you know, I, it's just so cool to talk to people with, uh, layers of wisdom and- Mm-hmm

experience.

Susan Baracco: Absolutely.

Zhou Fang: And, and you help people realize their stories and dreams, and that's just so wonderful and cool.

Susan Baracco: Yeah.

Zhou Fang: So thank you so much for coming here today, Susan. And I know you are located in, you're based out in Maine, right? [00:44:00]

Susan Baracco: Correct. Yep. Just, I'm just a little north of Boston. Oh. I'm about an hour and a half north of Boston, so.

Okay. But I'm in Maine, technically.

Zhou Fang: Okay. Technically.

Susan Baracco: Yes.

Zhou Fang: Um, so hopefully someday we will meet.

Susan Baracco: I would love that.

Zhou Fang: Yeah. Hopefully someday. We can, we can plant the seed.

Susan Baracco: There we go. Yes.

Zhou Fang: Yeah. Um, so for folks who are curious about your work and maybe want to work with you and write their first book- How do people find you and contact you?

Susan Baracco: Well, I am on LinkedIn. That's my, uh, social media of choice. Um, so that's the, the best... I, I kind of, I, I like to say I have a monogamous relationship with L- LinkedIn. It's about all I can, all I can manage to keep up with LinkedIn. But that's a, a good place. My website is, um, storyarchitectforwomen.com, and that's all one word.

So it's

storyarchitectforwomen.com.

Zhou Fang: Got it.

Susan Baracco: Best place to find me. Um, it's got my... You'll find [00:45:00] Dreamweaver on there and a link to, to her website. Mm-hmm. And read all about Jenny as well. Um, but all of my contact information is there and my portfolio, things that I've been working on, things that I'm currently working on.

Um, actually I have to update that 'cause I haven't updated it in a while. But yeah, also 'cause I've got a couple of new clients that I just b- started working with a couple months ago, so.

Zhou Fang: Wonderful. Um,

Susan Baracco: lots of, uh, lots of new things, um, on my, uh, on my plate. But yeah, good place to, um, to go and learn more, more.

Zhou Fang: That's so exciting. Wow. Okay, cool. We'll make sure to share your contacting infor- information and your websites, uh, in the show notes for sure. Okay. And, um, I hope we speak again before long. I'd

Susan Baracco: love to. I would love to. So think about a, a specific topic. If there's a t- a topic you wanna drill down into, I would love to

Zhou Fang: do something like that.

I'll start my journal first.

Susan Baracco: There you

Zhou Fang: go. That would be really fun. We'll have something to talk about. I know. I mean, [00:46:00] of course we have a lot to talk about. So much to talk about. Um, oh gosh, yeah. I'm so, I'm so happy that you came and we talked, Susan. Me too. Yeah, yeah. Such a

Susan Baracco: pleasure.

Zhou Fang: Yeah.

Susan Baracco: Such a pleasure.

Zhou Fang: Yeah. Thank you so much.

Susan Baracco: With my mask too. What's

Zhou Fang: that? I

Susan Baracco: said-

Zhou Fang: Yeah ...

Susan Baracco: it went by very quickly so.

Zhou Fang: Yeah, it did go fast. I mean, I just have so many, like, question. I need to know. I want to ask you questions. Um, and with that, we are going to stop recording here.