"There is the we, and the me. If you turn it upside down, the M turns into a W and the W turns into an M", with Nicole Shir, on Language, Connection, th...

Transcript:
0:01
Hello everyone, welcome to The Intersection, a podcast program about intersectionality, intersectional identities, and intersectional journeys both professionally and personally.
And as we all know, they are very interconnected.
0:17
And I am your host and producer, Zhoufang.
Today we have another amazing guest coming here to share with us their own journeys and stories and the learning along the way.
Please continue to listen and find out more.
0:33
Welcome.
All right, Hello, welcome back to the Intersection program.
And today we have another amazing guest joining us today in this beautiful, you know, early fall in Portland, OR.
0:52
Her name is Nicole Scheer.
Nicole and I connected earlier this year, I think the magic of the Internet, I guess.
And we talked a lot about belonging, accessibility, etcetera.
1:08
And Nicole has accomplished so much.
You're an awesome author and you've given 2 Ted X talks.
So I would love to introduce, I would love to invite I, you to introduce herself.
Hi, we met through Weston who is an amazing entrepreneur.
1:29
He says you've got to meet Joe, she is fabulous and that's the connection.
So I said OK, I'm going to meet her.
And he gave me the wrong, He gave me the wrong link at 1st and so I had to go back and say where's the link?
So that's how it started the ball rolling.
1:51
It was.
Connection.
Yeah, it was the connection.
And so, so that's how the connection started.
Well, the, the Ted talks came out of a lot of research I was doing.
The second one came, it kind of started, I didn't realize this until, you know, kind of later really came from what my grandma said.
2:16
My grandma, my family immigrated around the May wars and they hid that they were Jewish and being Jewish right now is not necessarily a good thing.
And but they hid because of the anti-Semitism, right?
2:31
Well what happened is when she moved here, she couldn't speak English and she was having her brothers and sisters in school, trans, you know, translate for her.
One day they said we will not do that.
And so she had an accident and she was embarrassed and she hid in the corn stalks.
2:49
And this was like in Minnesota and South Dakota.
So it wasn't warm.
And I never realized that that was really the point that got me all the way to the Ted Talk.
I actually showed my grandmother that my grandmother, I believe, had a learning disability.
3:06
And it was never acknowledged.
And I think because of my learning disability, it was a mirror to her.
And she just struggled with that.
So I wanted to show her that this mirror is OK to look at.
This mirror is beautiful.
And so I showed her later on, like before she passed the Ted talk and I saw her eyes water and she was the stout German that did not she really embraced her Germanness that did not show any emotion that her eyes.
3:33
Oh.
Very stoic.
So the Ted talk was really that one was really powerful and really hard to do.
When I met the host, one of the reasons he took me was because he used to translate for his parents.
And it's really talking about how we don't have to speak the same language to create a connection when we've got Google Translate and we've got each other.
3:59
And especially with what's going on right now, people are looking too much at our differences instead of looking where we connect.
Right.
And we have so much inhumanity we connect with and when we don't understand how hard it is when people come over from other countries or when we go to another country to learn a different language and to communicate.
4:25
And I experienced it on both ends with being having people that were in my life that didn't speak the same language.
And I experienced it when I traveled.
That was kind of fun.
When I traveled, we had a We had a lot of laughter.
Yeah.
That kind of stuff is so important because you can become family and still not speak the same language.
4:47
Oh, totally.
Yeah, Yeah, yeah.
I mean, it's a really powerful talk.
I will make sure to share the link in our show notes.
It talks about how we can connect with people before we even meet them, if we have the right tools and the right mindset.
5:07
That was my first Ted talk.
That's about dating.
This exactly.
Yeah.
Oh, so you want to talk about because the first one, what the one I was talking about, it is also about connection.
That one's about connection, and what we discovered was is people are more similar than they realize and there's patterns into connection.
5:28
Yeah.
And if you know the patterns, you can know how to connect with people before you meet them.
And but this also impacts healing.
This also impacts like I, I'm currently writing a personality, a personality book on how people get fractured and can go down a dark path, which is so huge, especially with all the stuff coming up with AI, all the stuff coming up with belonging, all the things.
5:53
Because what ends up happening is we have these narratives.
And right now, this is, I'm just going to be very blunt.
We in our society are having narratives that are on systems of oppression and we're being constantly fed whether it's racism, whether it's about ableism, whether it's about gender, whether it's about sexual orientation, these ideologies that are saying you are not the same, you are different, and you need to oppress these people that are not like you.
6:23
It's an US versus them message.
And so because of those narratives, things get twisted.
And then when it's happening is people make vows, but where they make those vows are either in their love language or their belonging language.
And then things get twisted.
And when they get twisted, that's when we have things like the black pill.
6:43
I don't know if you've heard of the red pill, the blue pill, and the black pill.
I heard of the red and blue pills, I haven't heard the black pill.
OK, the black pill, this is kind of more like you're in sales.
These are the young men that are that are growing up without hope.
7:00
One of the problems is when we don't give people hope, they either are going to come after themselves or come after you and there's there's there's nothing stopping them.
They have no hope of ever getting married and having a family, no hope of having a career or job, no hope of anything.
And these are the dangerous people because.
7:18
Yeah, yeah.
So thank you for correcting me.
And so the newer Ted talk, I was just able to find it, you gave it last year and it is about connecting people and also addressing the loneliness epidemic.
7:37
So I'll make sure both links are in the show notes and to make sure people can find them and watch them.
So, and you're also an author?
That one came out of the first Ted Talk and I'm sorry, that is kind of confusing.
And so and I kind of jumped to the second one versus the first one.
7:57
Yeah, I wrote a book, I've actually written a couple.
The the book I wrote is on the personality and it is like a 700 page personality book, but it's broken up in different sections.
So if you don't have what you're dealing with in that area, you can jump to another one.
8:14
So that's one of the stuff.
And then I broke them into mini books.
I currently have a healing technology book that I'm looking at finding a a group that wants to do that around healing systems of oppression.
I've written that that hasn't been released.
8:31
And then the one that I wrote as a book, but I'm turning it into the AI assistant for HR, is how different races, culture, women, LGBTQ plus and ages view disability either invisible or visible for HR and leaders.
8:54
Wow, that sounds very much much needed.
I mean your business is called the needs language, so you are really addressing the needs out there.
Yeah, go ahead.
Sorry.
No, you go ahead.
They don't train HR HR does not.
9:10
First of all, how can you, how can you send people into the workplace where you don't train them and give them these skills?
Most people don't come out of their home with skills.
And 2nd, we don't do enough around disabilities.
And then third, if you had a cultural or racial or gender or all that other stuff that has another complexity.
9:28
So they don't have the conflict resolution tools.
They don't have all these other tools.
And no wonder we're seeing lawsuits like $8 million from like, Circle K around disability discrimination.
Yeah, yeah, totally.
And I feel like, like you said, it's like if we are not doing the work, it actually costs a lot of money, but somehow employers and business owners decide to not see that.
9:54
Yeah.
So talk about thank you and I will also add your book list to the notes as well.
They are really cool, and I want to talk about maybe a little bit more about your practice on belonging and accessibility.
10:12
You've been doing this for a very long time.
Over the years, what's your observation has been?
Just as things evolve and change, what are the things you've noticed that are moving towards the right direction?
10:29
What are the things that are maybe trailing or falling behind?
I think people aren't understanding what belonging is because of the definitions, just like people don't understand I think the definitions.
10:44
OK I was talking with someone about burnout today and burnout has different different definitions.
So does belonging.
It depending on how you research belonging.
I do it through personality, I do it through connection with disability.
I do it through how are you connecting and, and, and when you, when you get fractured with a dark personality type of thing or you end up using it in a, in a dark way to connect with people.
11:08
So how are people viewing belonging as the first step?
Because that's going to give you the information you need to know to, to, to take the next step and how to work with that.
The other thing is our workplaces aren't taking that as seriously as they need to because if you don't take that seriously and you don't have a healthy workplace culture, you get people who are checked out and then they can't do the work.
11:35
And you know, even though we're having like a lot of people are getting laid off and they're blaming AI, I've actually seen people have to get rehired back because the company goes, oh, we had AI and we made all these mistakes.
We need you back.
So people aren't knowing that that that's kind of some of the stuff like the hiring graphic designers and things like that back.
11:54
But yeah, because of the mistakes they've made.
Oh, gosh.
But what people are are seeing is if they're in that fear mode because their company isn't knowing how to strategically handle them over that fear, what ends up happening is they can't feel like they belong.
12:11
They can't feel like that connection which impacts their work.
And we have to learn how to be sensitive, even if we have to do the hard thing of letting someone go.
Interesting.
And and right now, I mean at least from what I learned and heard in the HR industry is when we let people go, we we're not being very human.
12:41
It's kind of just like, thanks, bye.
Well, because it's scary and no one really has the skills.
It goes back to skills.
When we don't have the skills we avoid.
So you're, you're afraid people are going to get mad at you.
13:00
We are having more people who are more angry and we don't want to have to deal with that anger.
We don't know what's going to happen.
So it's easier to to distance yourself because you don't want to deal with that person's grief, that person's anger, because it is a grieving process that that person's going through.
13:19
And so if you don't have the skills to deal with it, of course you're going to avoid it, which makes it worse for that person because then they feel even more like they didn't like, like they, you don't didn't care about them.
And so that creates a whole another place because when they go to another workplace, they've got that in the back of their mind, which impacts that employment, which impacts our economy.
13:43
Yeah, I mean, big time.
And I really thank you for this quote.
We, if we don't have the skills, we avoid and we distance ourselves.
I think that's really true.
That's like like impersonal relationships too, because we don't want to mess up.
13:59
So instead of learning how to deal with it, we just don't deal with it.
And when we maybe eventually somehow we try and then we mess up.
You're like, oh, crap, Like that's awful.
But we never learned.
14:15
It's just, it's a, it's kind of a vicious cycle.
Yeah.
And I think part of it has to do with we don't understand how we we don't spend enough time understanding how we operate.
And then what I mean by that is like our love languages and our belonging language.
14:32
Because when we understand that and we understand the other parties, we can then have some skills on how to communicate.
So I'll give you an example of how I, when I was growing up, most of my family was like quality time.
I was not.
And so they would say things that this common saying, I can't quite say, right?
14:51
I was sensitive when they'd say certain words to me and they'd say you need to be more like a duck, like water and let it run off your back.
Well, that doesn't work for a person who's words of affirmation that they, it goes into your core.
And then I'd be reactive and then it would mess with their quality time.
So because they didn't know how to work with mine, then I would automatically not work with theirs and nobody was getting their needs met in that area.
15:17
So when we don't understand each other and what each other needs, everyone needs love and belonging, or you could say care.
That's when we start having reactionary things happen.
And depending on the person or depending on the situation you're going to, it's going to depend on the reaction.
15:36
But when you understand how someone communicates, you then can have insightful things about yourself, insightful things about that other person, and you can heal the trauma because that's where trauma, that's where vows come in, where you make negative commitments to yourself as a as another form of manifestation.
15:53
And you can start dealing with those things.
This sounds actually can be very technical.
So I'm very curious to learn about your approach to, you know, helping people understand each other's love and belonging language.
16:12
Like how do you approach that?
It's listening.
People always tell you who they are and what they're about.
So if you teach people the patterns, the definitions of each, you can pick up the patterns.
It's really so one thing about neurodivergent people were pattern based and so when you teach people the patterns, you can pick it up.
16:37
What are the patterns when someone does this?
So you basically need to be very clear and just tell people, this is how I communicate and I would love to, you know, work with you.
16:57
And I also understand like to understand how you communicate so that we can figure out how we communicate with each other.
Exactly.
OK, that's really helpful.
And again, this requires care and real work.
17:13
I wonder a lot of people like Nah, I don't got time for that.
Well, is, you know, it's really not as hard as people think it is.
I.
Know and and the thing with it is, is it doesn't matter if you go with my system or someone else's, go with what works for you.
And sometimes it can just be a little 5 minute recording.
17:32
So a lot of times people don't know about like EFT that's tapping that can you can do that in 5 minutes.
That's a good one you can do.
You can find you can find all sorts of things that can help you that will not take a long time.
And that's where you know you can, you can do that in a belonging situation with your friends.
17:52
You can meditate.
Meditate sometimes will help you get skills to move forward where you're supposed to go.
In fact, I meditated before we talked today because I'm like, I really want to make sure that I'm clear and I'm engaging wisdom before I talk with Joe.
18:10
Because it's not just I'm talking with Joe, I'm talking with other people and they need to be sensitive to everyone.
That's really cool because when I was thinking about, you know, how do we use love and belonging languages that resonate with people, I was really thinking more from the technical side.
18:33
But I think your approach is more holistic, you know, physical movements, somatic meditate, I'm guessing even some other approaches like acupuncture like yoga or Tai chi, maybe just a walk in the neighborhood even getting fresh air.
18:57
So that's like a more holistic way of how do we say it to to kind of open the channels.
Yes, it's.
It's really about what works for you.
For some, they may say, I don't want to do what you're doing.
19:13
I really need more of a walk so I can cool down from what just happened.
And in that walk, they're really just thinking about and, and a lot of it is also engaging with questions.
How can I, how can I be respectful in this situation?
19:29
How can I be more wise?
How can I be kind to them and kind to myself?
Because what it is really is it's learning how to be is learning how to be not be too much me and too much we because we are in our in the in the United States society, we are too much about ourselves.
19:50
We are so me we're singing on the shower off key.
And in other societies there are too collectivism and they're doing too much wee, wee, wee.
And I'm not going to say what happens with that, but what ends up happening is there's an imbalance there because then you don't have an identity.
20:09
Right.
Yeah, that's so true.
And I feel like in a very collectivism society sometimes, I'm not saying always shame plays a larger role than it should.
Yeah, it does.
20:25
It's like people shame you.
I mean, I had that experience growing up.
You are like, don't be an embarrassment of the for the for the family.
Like don't embarrass us, you know.
So I feel, yeah.
So that's, that's the other, the other end of the spectrum.
20:43
Yeah, and that's why we have to learn the balance of both, because you still need community and belonging.
That is the we, but you still need the me.
And if you turn it upside down, the M turns into AW and the W turns into an M.
So you need both.
21:00
And I think because the E is always consistent and so you need both.
And that's where we're missing it.
We always go to these extremes.
We need each other, but we also need to be our unique selves.
Yeah, our unique selves.
We're complementing each other because we're using our unique gifts and talents together.
21:20
It's not a competition to make the world a better place.
And I'm not trying to sound a woo woo and but really, honestly, when you combine your talents with someone else who doesn't have those talents, it can, you can create things that our economy that other people may need.
21:38
And when you, when we all put the value on it, that is not like, oh, this is less or this is more, but we all see the value together.
Oh my gosh, so much can happen.
Yeah, that's, well, going back to the beginning, you know, how we met each other is the human connection.
21:59
So when more than one or two people come together, I think something really magical will happen.
Yeah.
But it really is up to us.
Like, do we, are we in or are we out?
Like, do we choose to engage or are we going to run away and avoid it?
22:17
So it's just so philosophical suddenly.
Well, I think there's safety in that too.
We have to know when it's safe.
We have to know when it's not safe and who's safe and how.
And there's a lot of questions that go with that and we have to be in community and be asking some of those questions.
22:35
So sometimes it's just not, it's not just skills, it's having a person that you trust to ask.
That's where community comes in as well.
So those are some of those things that and people are wise in different areas and so knowing who you go to for what.
22:59
It's like you cannot just have one mentor or one advisor.
You can have multiple for different reasons.
Yes, yes.
That's so amazing.
Thank you.
So, so you mentioned earlier you are writing a book about the systems of technology healing tech and earlier when we talked you also talked about a trap bar project for accessibility.
23:32
It seems like you tend to use, you like to use the systems of technology to make our world more accessible and friendly and more belonging oriented, which is interesting 'cause I feel often times, especially now with AI, we have a very mixed view of technology and how it does to us.
24:02
So can you share a little bit more about your approach to using technology and make it work for us?
So people want something quick and simple.
They want a McDonald's solution, but not the calories.
So the AI tool is really the the one around disability and intersectionality is really because they don't have the skills and training and they don't have the time.
24:28
So it's if you don't have the foundation of your house, you can't really build the house.
So it's giving people the basic foundation and it's also the way it's designed.
It's also designed so that it, it, it opens jobs for people because I'm going to have a section where people can find consultants that specialize in that area.
24:49
So the way it's designed is really to, to put people in a situation where they can ask and, and get those instead of like going, OK, I have to wait 5 minutes.
Google, I don't know if Google's going to be right, you know, and if there is some mistakes, they can, they can reach out and say, hey, this, this didn't work and This is why it didn't work.
25:11
Because research is never going to be 100% and there can be mistakes.
But The thing is, is it can evolve and it can change.
That's why, because people want something quick and easy.
If they didn't want something quick and easy, I'd have just done the book, you know, as a training manual, which is.
25:28
Oh, right.
And then the other one that is more of a is another technology one is it was really developed because this one's a little more personable, personal.
I was talking with someone I had, I had been in a conflict resolution training and this woman, Oh my gosh, was really intense.
25:53
And I have a learning disability.
And I told her I, I don't care if you talk to me, but do not call me out in front of this group.
This group is very intense.
Well, she called me out in front of the group and I just walked away.
A white woman is not going to teach me about racism.
She doesn't know.
26:10
She does not know.
And so I went and talked to my neighbor because I, I grew up where my uncle was half black and half Japanese, but he'd bring, he'd bring Trail Blazers home.
So I didn't.
I don't understand.
I'm going to have a different view than most people, you know.
26:28
So I don't understand.
I'm a little more naive.
And my neighbor and I were having a conversation.
And I'm not going to say necessarily what her, what her friend said.
Her friend just watched and observed.
Her friend says one of the most It was so impactful.
26:46
So the power distance was I was beneath them.
They were on a porch higher than me, which was really important because you need power distance when you're talking about things like this because white people have done a lot of superiority things.
So when a person who is not white is above, it creates a power distance, which creates a little more safety and in conflict.
27:11
Yeah.
And so and so.
And then she watched and she listened.
Her friend watched and her friend listened.
And as she watched and listened, finally she got vulnerable.
And she said something about how she was tired of what she was experiencing.
27:28
And my heart broke.
I mean, my heart dropped.
And 'cause it wasn't, it was not pretty.
And, you know, part of me wanted to run up and give her the biggest hug, but I knew that wasn't appropriate.
And I said, I am so sorry you experienced that, that, that I'm so sorry, you know, 'cause that's all you can say.
27:47
And ever since then, I've realized that not everyone gets to confront the people who've abused them in systems of oppression.
Right.
They do this whole, oh, you get to do this doll and you get to do this and it doesn't work.
28:05
But if you can, there's a, there's a theory to what I've developed with technology to and I've tested it a little bit and there's a way to do it.
And So what that gave her to be able to tell me is it gave her some freedom because most people aren't going to tell.
28:27
Most, most, a lot of white people first, don't make it safe.
And 2nd, if, if you do tell, a lot of times people will get defensive.
I really wanted to learn in that moment because of my experience.
Like I said, my, I was used to Trail Blazers.
So that's where that's where my, my heart went.
28:48
Is this like, and because I've dealt with systems of oppression around my disability, of course.
So this is where I was like, OK, how can we start working through this so that we stop having so much trauma or we are reactive because of the trauma and we learn new skills?
29:06
So that's where the tech part comes in I'm guessing is the learning the learning part.
It's more about, it's more about creating something that and there's a process that you go through with a licensed professional.
29:23
And so then you get the ability to work through that with a licensed professional in a way that it's more personable and it's programmed a certain way.
And I can't give too many details because it would, it would really, it would really say what the project is, but it's very similar to that.
29:40
And so it's really, it's really just giving people the ability to, to confront that system of oppression in a way that is in a way that it's more personable where we've never really, we, we don't have that in our society.
29:57
I mean, if you ever need someone to test it, I'm more than, you know, interested in just learning about it.
Yeah, 'cause I also, I'm very much, I very care about healing.
And I think you mentioned that earlier is, you know, at workplace there's a lot of like misalignment when people cannot understand each other, cannot communicate, cannot feel the love and belonging.
30:26
A lot of that is because we don't even heal.
If we cannot heal, then again, you touched only really well is if there's no foundation, there's no house.
Exactly.
So we don't have the foundation and I feel the foundation or at least far part of it is US healing.
30:49
So yeah, go ahead.
Well, So what ends up happening, and this is not the victim's fault, I'm going to make that very clear.
What ends up happening is when we keep getting abused over and over again.
It's like an affirmation, and it rewires us into that.
31:06
And so things start happening.
I've actually had someone say to me, I have never seen anyone just stand there and people start attacking you.
And I had to work through, yeah, it was like wild.
I'd just be on the phone some, some person starts yelling at me, like, what is going on?
31:23
And it's because of some of the things that went on with the neurodivergent.
I'm actually my neurodivergent diagnosis on a good day as 4% of the United States population.
So you can imagine what went on with me.
So my brain was trained to attract that.
31:41
And as I started letting that go, that would happen less and less and less because I would get out of that victim mindset.
You see, there's a victim predator rescue triangle.
And when we get into that triangle, that those pointy edges, well, they're sharp and they hurt.
31:58
And we may not know that we're in there, but as we release that energy, things start to shift.
Things start to change.
I wonder if we also, I mean, I'm pretty naive in this.
I'm, I'm, I'm also wondering if it has anything to do with, you know, whether or not we'll be able to learn how to love ourselves again so that we don't fall into that.
32:29
You know, I'm a victim.
So you just in that cycle over and over, almost feel like maybe this is what I deserve.
Yeah.
So that part is like, that's definitely not loving.
So I'm guessing, you know, if we want to get out of that vicious cycle, we really need to relearn what love is.
32:49
And that's where it's understanding what your language is around love and your language around belonging is and where you were fractured or hurt in that.
And that's also where community comes in because when community sees the beauty of who you are, community partners with you in it.
33:07
And that's where a lot of healing comes in because you start to see your unique talents through them and you see their unique talents and then you are able to partner.
And that creates 'cause when you start to see that.
The story I talked about my grandma where she could not see the mirror of her disability in me and it really bothered her.
33:28
She struggled with me when I showed her the mirror differently.
There was some peace that she had when she was getting ready to pass away because I showed her the mirror was different.
And so we have to start, we may not be able to change the, the, the affirmations around the systems of oppression, but what we can do is we can work amongst each other and say, this is what I enjoy about you.
33:55
This is why I like hanging out with you.
And we can create our own groups.
Mm hmm.
Yeah, that's so interesting.
I almost feel like a lot of us, especially folks who are considered as different, you know, like we, I mean, intuitively, I guess at least from the beginning, you try to fit in because you want to belong, like you want to belong so badly.
34:24
It's like I I'm going to mold myself into this group.
But you just said it.
It's like we can have our own groups, like you don't need to fit in, Yeah.
So when I met Weston, who introduced us, I just as a OK, I, I fell in love with him as a person.
34:43
I mean, it was like I had in some ways, I kind of almost had my twin.
It was just like, it was like, hey, this is like one of my people and I just, I really appreciate him.
I just really have this really unique connection with him.
35:01
And I think when you find people like that, it's just, you know, and people are there for a season sometimes.
I actually one of the things, and I'm going to share this, this was so powerful.
I grew up where my aunt had a visible disability.
My disability is not visible.
35:18
And so it's been really hard.
In some aspects it was good because my mother discovered mine at an early age.
But at the same time, because my aunt was visible, it was hard to accept mine because you couldn't see mine.
So society kept saying, Hey, you really don't have anything.
35:36
And so as as well, it's my train of thought.
I as time went on, well, I'll get it back.
It just, it was, oh, I know where I'm going it.
It was so hard to have that acceptance over my disability.
I almost had to pretend like I didn't have it and then it would fail and I wouldn't get the reasonable accommodation.
35:53
It was just such a struggle.
I ended up getting a peer mentor that had a disability and what she taught me was how to accept myself through the disability and how to use it in so many words as a superpower and how to help others.
And by having that peer mentor for years, I, I stopped having that, that struggle.
36:14
I really did.
And so sometimes it's also having peer mentors who are in the same area you're in, who have the same kind of struggles or see the same kind of struggles because they know and they can help you walk through it.
36:32
And I'm going to tell you, I am so grateful for her because if it wasn't for her, I don't think I'd come as far as her.
And all it was was just acceptance and saying, yes, this, you can do this.
And I'm so proud of you.
36:48
And I would just succeed more and more and more because of her teaching me it was OK to be, to exist with this disability.
I love that I do because I actually have people in my life who I care about very much.
37:08
They were, this is not just one individual.
It's it actually happened to multiple people.
A lot of my friends, they got diagnosed with like neuro diversity, like ADHD as adults and not, not just young adults, but like later in adulthood and it really hit them.
37:29
Like, I mean, yes, in a way it explains everything, right?
It's almost like what a relief.
It's like, I'm not, you know, I'm, I'm just a person, like I'm OK, like this is my neurodivergent.
37:46
But then on the other hand, people sometimes have a really hard time to accept that, because my guess is to associate oneself with something they were so unfamiliar with and also potentially have some taboo or misunderstanding stereotype.
38:11
To associate oneself with something they are resistant to, that's really hard.
Yeah, well, and it's hard when you're older and you get this diagnosis and now it's like I, I'm in this category.
38:27
I, I didn't know that this how do I deal with this?
It is so hard to go through that.
And even if they change how you are perceived, it can also 'cause that.
And so you, you almost are going through a grieving process.
38:43
Definitely.
And you have to allow yourself to go through those feelings.
Yes.
So you have to almost have to grieve before you accept.
Yeah, and it's a different kind of grieving, actually.
Brené Brown has some something in her heart.
38:59
She has this heart book.
That's all I can remember of it.
She's talking about there's different kinds of grief.
So this is a different kind of grief that I think a lot of us don't talk about.
It's a, you know, it's not a like, OK, I've got cancer and I'm dying.
39:15
It's more like, OK, how do I OK, why didn't they tell me OK, how is more this unsure footing and having to go through those stages?
Right.
It's almost like pieces of you or like a part of a history of you when missing.
39:36
Yeah.
You sort of missed out.
That makes so much sense.
Yeah, I like, I part of my identity is I'm an only child.
And, and for me, it's important because I wasn't an only child by choice, because my focus, my folks couldn't have 1:00 because of the policy in China.
39:59
Oh yeah.
My mom actually had to have an abortion after me, otherwise they would lose their like livelihood, etcetera.
So like for me, it's just so interesting.
I want to know about like whether or not they were able to grieve that.
40:19
And for me, you know, I just, I grieve the opportunity that I didn't have of having a sibling.
Yeah.
Like I always feel like especially living in the USA, lot of my friends have siblings and whether or not you are, you know, friend me with your sibling or you love them dearly or somehow you are estranged.
40:50
For me that's like and I know this is not like exactly logical, but for me I think, well, at least you have one.
Yeah.
Well, you know, yeah, it, well, it is different, you know, it's, it's a different form of belonging because you're more lonely.
41:09
And then if your, your mom went through that, there's also a grieving period because you, you, you knew about that.
And so there's a lot that goes into that.
And I am sorry you experienced that.
That is really challenging.
Yeah.
So like when you talked about the kind of grief I think about that it's, I'm also like, oh, somehow I missed out.
41:30
Yeah.
Like, I have ADHD all this time, but why not for my entire life?
Why do I just get to know about this now?
It's about I almost feel like I missed part of myself.
And I feel that is like a lot of grief.
41:47
Yeah, yeah.
And that's, I think that's why we have to when we're, we're giving people diagnosis along these lines.
I think some of it is we have counselors out there, but we need to talk more about the grief process.
So can you talk more about that, like the grief process?
42:07
Well, we have to look at what the grief process is and go through it.
We need to make sure we don't stay stuck in it, but really maneuver through it and realize it's OK to take time to grow, to go through it.
A lot of times we're told, oh, you just got to get over it.
42:24
Move, because we move so fast in society and this, this is where it's finding a person that is qualified to walk through it with you and asking them, are you, are you a counselor or a trained therapist or even a trained coach?
42:43
I would personally think you should go with a trained therapist and help me go through the grief process of this.
OK, I really hope listeners out there are taking notes.
I don't think this is unique.
43:00
I actually think a lot of us are going through it, but silently.
Yeah, yeah.
So that's that's really, really important for people people to take notes on I'm.
Going to share something real quick because I think this is important.
43:18
So when I was growing up, my mom put me in a private school because she knew there was something different about me.
And they had this program for kids who were different.
And, and so we started succeeding more than the kids that were the normal kids.
43:36
Well, they kind of decided to take that program away 'cause, you know, the kids that are not doing the normal stuff shouldn't succeed and do better than the other kids.
I emotionally know when that happened as a kid, I felt it and I had to go back as an adult and deal with those emotions because no one walked me through those emotions as a child and I grieved it.
44:03
I remember sitting in the assembly and watching people get awards and I worked so hard and I couldn't get awards at that time because they took away my ability to get awards.
Wow, that's such a violation.
44:19
That's such a oh, God.
Like it's visceral.
It's like they took your basically agency away.
It's such a oh, I'm sorry.
Well, well then see what happened was and this is where, this is where love languages and stuff comes in.
44:35
My love languages are words of affirmation and gifts.
So basically it went deeper into me and I couldn't put words into it as until I was an adult.
And so then because I know these healing modalities, I just went through and said, oh, I'm putting two and two together.
I now can work through that because I know this kind of stuff, but I also would work with someone who was trained because I can't just always do it by myself.
44:59
But these are the kinds of things that when you have those memories, they get trapped in you.
They create fracturing and then you can go, oh, but see, we even know these things.
Even if, and I wasn't diagnosed with a learning disability till high school.
But you, your body, your you know these things.
45:17
Yes.
And especially, you know, as a teenager you were going through biological changes too and getting diagnosed in high school.
And that's that's a learning ability.
45:34
And they and those are, they look different, but I feel they are very, very connected.
Yeah.
So in grade school when that happened, that was hard.
And then getting diagnosed in high school, I mean, there's just a lot that happens around that.
And I think that when I was growing up, they just did not have.
45:52
I was very lucky I got diagnosed and that's how I view it now.
I was very lucky I got diagnosed.
And now that I find out I'm 4% of the population, on a good day I go I'm really lucky.
You know what I think is very actually fun and funny that you are talking about?
46:12
You know, your mother put you in a private school.
It reminds me of Wednesday, the Addams Family.
And then, you know, earlier we were chatting about dark personalities and I was like, oh man, you are a Wednesday.
46:31
I can be sometimes actually.
You know, I so you know these to to talk about, you know, these dark personalities and being special and being different and not trying to fit in a mold, but rather have your own group.
46:55
What's a fun way for you just to talk about our personalities?
Sometimes dark, but they're not bad, you know, they're just different.
Like how do you talk about that?
Well, I mostly don't do it.
I kind of do it in a fun way, but OK, well, I'll tell this one.
47:12
This one is quite interesting.
And I told this to a couple of people and it's blown their mind.
This is this is not dark.
This is just how people, how people process.
So people, there's certain energies people have.
People can do time zone like time things.
47:28
There's things around that.
So most like if you were to look at George Bush and Laura, let me step back in a second.
Most women are gatherers.
Most men are hunters.
That has not changed.
When they get together, they make a support system.
This is what we're used to.
So let's say when you do George and Laura Bush, they were a support system.
47:46
Doesn't matter what side of the political idol they are.
When you look at Barack Obama and Michelle, they were a support system.
So this is what we're used to.
This is not this current administration.
Trump is neither a a hunter or a gatherer.
48:04
This is why this is so unique.
But when he partners with a hunter, he does past, present, future, all at once.
When he partners with a gatherer, he does past, present, future all at once.
That's why we feel like the timeline is colliding.
That's why we feel like the past is coming into the present.
48:20
The future is coming into the present and we feel like everything's all colliding in the timeline.
That's so I'm, I'm actually, I have goosebumps right now.
That feels so profound.
Yeah.
And scary.
48:38
Yeah, there's hope because there's other people who can do this.
I've known other people who can't.
He doesn't know he's doing it, by the way.
It's just how he's made in personality.
And there's, and again, there's other people I know.
Mostly I've seen women is this is not very common and you can understand why.
48:56
And then there's people who are like there's there's one kind of personality that can do it with just a hunter.
Then there's another one that can just do it with a gatherer.
And so there are ways to combat it is just getting it into the right hands so that people can people who are in leadership can know how to combat it.
49:17
But when he is no longer, it will stop and will go back to a support system.
So if you can find someone who does the timeline, and I know how this all works, you can actually reverse.
Things.
Yeah.
49:36
Well, but then something in me thinks, I mean, I agree.
I think that is a hope.
I mean, history always moves, generally speaking, into One Direction and luckily that's the right direction.
But again, we always have setbacks.
49:52
I guess my fear is there's some randomness, name randomness in it is who are the right hands?
What if the right hands don't show up until much later?
So that's kind of like me playing with my own mind just like, OK, what if it doesn't work out, you know.
50:12
But I do hear, you know, the whole part is there are counter, there are countering power out there who can bring the balance back.
And when this this is gone, they won't be able to do what they're doing.
50:29
It'll go back to what a normal support system looks like.
So it'll be easier to combat it.
They won't be able to do it at the level they're doing.
I, I can.
It'll just be like, because there's no one else that has that ability in their cabinet.
50:44
And that's why they're holding on to him so tightly.
So this is the fun part.
I know, I didn't mean to go down the dark part, but this is the fun part.
Because when you understand how time works with personality, or you understand how energy works, like is it strong?
Is it, is it slow?
Is it you can actually figure out how people move in the world?
51:06
And I think that takes a lot of curiosity to get to that.
Yeah.
Like it requires so much exploring and questioning and being OK with, you know, questions not getting answered sometimes.
Or making mistakes.
51:23
Yeah, making mistakes as well.
Yeah.
Wow.
OK, that's really cool.
I always get people just kind of go, OK, I need last night.
Last night I told a gentleman he's like, OK, I'm going to go now.
I need to think about ways.
Yes.
I mean, it gives us a lot to think about.
51:40
Yeah.
Yeah.
And not necessarily to, you know, I know some people will say, well, that's super out of my control.
It's like there's nothing I can do about it.
Like, I don't want people to surrender, surrender to that.
Yeah.
51:56
I want people to, you know, process it and learn something from it and then regain our agency.
Yeah.
So we're not.
Powerless, you know, no.
And it might be that, you know, when this book is done, I actually can have train I actually have some trainings on it that I'm going to get out.
52:14
It might just be when when everything settles down, this might get out and then people can use it to actually do some change in our world.
I mean, I don't know how that's all going to come together, but I think that we have a little more agency than we realize.
52:33
And we have.
That's why one of the reasons I talk about vows and narratives, because when we clear that stuff out, we can do so much positive change.
And we have to also realize, like when I told the story about going to school and not hurting me, that is not necessarily my fault.
52:51
It was how I interpreted the situation because I didn't have an adult there to help me walk through that because they didn't have the knowledge.
But I now have the ability because I do have the knowledge to start walking through that and healing that so I can be a better leader.
53:08
And this is the way to look at it.
We are always leading someone, whether I mean, sometimes it could even just be your dog.
You're leading on a walk, but you're, you know, you're always influencing someone.
I love that.
53:24
I mean, we're all leaders.
Sometimes it's at higher capacity, sometimes lower, but we all lead.
So that's amazing.
Thank you so much, Nicole, for spending time today together and, you know, sharing your brain with us and intelligence, of course.
53:48
So where do people find you and follow your work and work with you?
Theneedslanguages.com you can set up an appointment there with me.
You can always find me on LinkedIn.
Those are probably the best places right now to find me.
54:06
My website's probably even the the best place to make an appointment with me.
So.
And that's really pretty much it.
And so I would, I would love to do more and I'm really open to doing lunch and learn.
So if people are really interested in in the kind of stuff I'm on, I'm, yeah.
54:22
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I will take notes on that.
I feel Lunch and Learn is really cool.
But The thing is, you know when you teach a lunch, so this is a bad joke.
I'm going to make a bad joke.
People are already eating and you're feeding people so much information.
54:43
I think people are going to have some digestion problems.
That's great.
Oh, Joe, you're so funny, I think.
It's pretty bad.
OK, I'm into it.
Well, with that and a lot to reflect on again, thank you, Nicole.
55:04
Thank you, Joe.
Thank you for listening to today's episode of The Intersection.
We hope you enjoyed it and if you like our program, please subscribe and recommend it to your friends and family.
Our original music is created by my friend Kel Van Zong and I am your host and producer.
55:26
Zhoufang.
See you next time and take care.
Yeah.