"To Grow  A Business Is To Learn Out Loud," with Sarah Cargill, on Storytelling, Rest Is Lucrative, Inviting People In, and Van Life.

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: [00:00:00] All right. Hello everyone. Welcome to the Intersection podcast. And this morning it's a little gray in Portland and I see both my guest and myself. We are having a cup of tea. Are

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: I am

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: are you having coffee or tea? Tea, coffee. Me too. I'm having tea. Um, so I'm thrilled to have, uh, a new-ish friend and a colleague and a peer in the Portland area.

Sarah Cargill, uh, on the program today. We met via a peer group, I think earlier this year, and for some reason I'm like, I really wanna talk to Sarah. So I think I emailed you or I don't remember, but we started talking and then we got on the phone for a while and then we had lunch. I just felt there was a lot of [00:01:00] like, um, like alignment in our value systems and the things we do.

And Sarah is a consultant and her, she has the coolest business name I think. And it's called statement. And I just want to intro, uh, invite Sarah to introduce herself and tell us the story of statement. Welcome, Sarah.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: I'm so excited to be here. Um, hello listeners. I am as Joe Shared, I'm Sarah Cargill. I founded Statement Co. We're a woman-owned business, um, also an emerging

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: I.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: business and a 1% for the Planet company. Uh, my focus as a consultant is designing go-to-market solutions for impact with storytelling. what that means is that we support clients with a mix of strategy, product design, operations change, and marketing that entire continuum, um, to launch a new idea or service or, um, change within a, an organization or [00:02:00] externally to the clients or consumers that they have. Uh, yeah. I'm excited for this conversation today, Joe.

Thanks so much for having me. Um. the name, uh, let's see. So the name is, the thing I find when entrepreneurs get started is where people get hung up and we kind of get stuck, right? Um, and

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Yes.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: when I figured out statement, I was in that same kind of spiral of like, should it be my personal name or should it be this other name? I decided that I wanted it to be a name that wasn't me. Um, one 'cause I think it's just weird to be out marketing and just talking about me the whole time. There's already an element of that. Being an, an entrepreneur and largely a solopreneur, um, that is a little bit of a, a stretch discomfort for me.

Right? Um, and so I

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: something else that I could talk about. Um, I also wanted. Something that, um, could maybe live bigger than me someday. Um, go beyond just my

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: And, um, and then I also wanted to create some emotional separation between me and my business. You [00:03:00] know, that my business, well, there is a very much like a intersection of where my business is, me and I'm my business. Um, I

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: talk about it as if it was this other entity that, um, I was growing and supporting and nurturing. And that whether it had big wins or big failures, it didn't mean that I was a big winner or failure, right?

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: I knew that I wanted to come up with a name and that was really hard to think about, like, what's the thing, right? And I

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: like many things in life, I just sort of that as an open question for days. Like, what is the name? Right? Um, and I didn't like really try to stress about it or really put too much emphasis on it. I tried to just leave it as an open. Question out there that was ready to, um, to like answer.

Right? Um, and so funny enough, I, um, were, I was with my partner. We were driving to a plant store. Um, we were like, let's get coffee on the way. And we stopped by this. Coffee shop. That was [00:04:00] so cute. And, um, I was looking at their sweatshirts and they had this like s and I, I tend to be more of a San Serif person, but I really liked the s font.

And there was just like this one word, I, I can't even remember the name of the coffee shop now, Joe. Like, it's like, it's funny that

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Uh.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: an impact in my story, but I can't remember it now. But I just remember looking at this sweatshirt that had the name of the coffee shop in this. Um, Sarah Font and I just thought it looked like, you know, so good.

And I was like, if I just had one word, what would that word be? And I, you know, they call my name for the coffee and I turn around and the word statement pops in my head. And, um, like, almost as if, like, what am I trying to say? I'm trying to make a, a statement, right. I, like, we get back in the car, we're driving to the plant shop.

I am such a nerd. So I am quickly. On the Oregon registry, looking up if other businesses are named Statement. And I go and I try to find

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: and I can't find like the, the, you know, [00:05:00] statement.com is like really hard to get ahold of. and.com really

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Yeah.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: of dying because they're just, they're all saturated. Um,

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Yep.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: I, I decided to look up for some reason statement code.io.io is a really popular, um, closer for a lot of like a, uh. Tech

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: that are out there now. Um, there's a lot of, uh,

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: reason for that. You know, one, I think it has some, um, technical tieback, but it just feels modern. It feels kind of hip. Um, and I

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: of statement code io io. So I was like, okay. So I found the domain and I found the like business registry. I texted five friends to be like, what do you think they all wrote back. Love it. So right there, before I walked into the plant store, I purchased the domain and then that night I went home and registered. Um, and I, they actually came back and said, you can't have statement code 'cause of the LLC and the corporation, you know? So I ended up

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: it statement Enterprises with this [00:06:00] idea that I would potentially, um, have other versions of statement, like statement, art and statement consulting and statement, um, other things.

Right? Uh, and so, uh, so a statement, it was, and, and here's my, like what I tell every entrepreneur is like. know, the name can be really hard to come up with, but honestly, just pick one that feels good. Run with it. Because changing it, like I did Statement Enterprise and then I did a DBA for Statement Co. And, um,

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Right.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: changing your name is just, it's all just dollars, registration, paperwork, and, you know, uh, branding and

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: check it later. The, the, the thing is to like pick something and just go, like, just run with it.

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: I actually really love it. I think that's kind of similar to how I picked my name, means I didn't want my own name, of course. 'cause no one can say Joe, like, what's a business Johan like, who no one knows. [00:07:00] And I also, I even considered my last name Fung, but I'm like, that's too pointy. Like literally too pointy.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: in the mouth to

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Oh,

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: Yeah.

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: yeah. And Fung is like, in English, it's tooth, right? Fang, like, right, like Fung is my last name. But like in English, people will like, why did you pick Tooth as your name?

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: I feel could

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Um,

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: in a

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: so I'm like, no.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: if you were.

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Yeah, I could, I could, I mean, I could get a, I don't know, a pastor, um, but like I also had the idea that someday I want it to be more than me.

Like I don't want it to be my identity alone. So I picked a group 'cause I want to have more people to join this practice. Um, so I really appreciated, uh, your kind of. Experience with it, because I also immediately went to the internet and tried to find the name, like, is he available, is he [00:08:00] available? And I realized, um, to a point.com is, you know, you just cannot get a.com.

But uh, dot group is new and available, so I got into sectional that group, I'm like, ti good. That works. And so I love it. That's, um, kind of story of every kind of, uh, entrepreneur these days. Um, so thank you for sharing that fun story. Um, and. We are all very inter uh, intersectional and international, I guess intersectional human beings.

And we talked about, uh, work of course, and I think in our previous conversations we also talked about our life journeys. Um, and at some point you shared with me that, um, you had some pretty significant health related journey before, and this [00:09:00] one quote you gave me, which I feel I will remember forever, is a rest is lucrative.

And when I heard it, I felt like, oh, this is so wise. It's like three words. Rest is lucrative, but I mean. So many people, a lot of us have a really hard time remembering that or even practicing it. Um, so can you share with us a little bit more about the journey and how did you come to, you know, rest is lucrative.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: a great call. And I actually, Joe, I can't even take credit for that. That actually, um, that phrase was something I learned along the journey from my personal coach and dear friend, uh, Jenna Starkey. So. She, she kind of instilled that in me, and it's something that I'm still, I'm still really trying to embody if I'm being honest.

Like I, kind of a, a

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: So,

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: I have this, a lot of energy to kind of get things done and, um, I'm still trying to master that one, but. right, it kind of [00:10:00] started from an injury. So, uh, I, you

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: look back, um, more than 10 years ago, I was ambitious. I had a lot of energy. I was, um, you know, working in a big corporate job.

I also ran a company, um, on the side. It was my first kind of forer into being a, a true entrepreneur. And, um, I, I would be on calls from like seven to seven or later. I was just like, my, my mode of being was like constantly running around, socializing, living in this kind of like consistent burnout zone, right? Um,

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: much wired that way. Um, but one day on my way to work, I, um, I actually got rear-ended on the highway. and I was knocked out. Uh, I, um, I saw brake lights in front of me, realized they were coming to a full stop. I stopped the car behind me, didn't, um, and I, and I just got kind of slammed at, um, you know, probably between 40 and 60 [00:11:00] miles per hour. I, I didn't realize it at the time, but I was on the brink of like a two year rehabilitation journey from that, um, you know, over the course of the days and the weeks that unfolded. 'cause with head injuries, you don't always. Understand, um, that it's how severe it is right off the bat. You kind of learn as you learn

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: working in your day. Um, I, you know, my first few days I went from, um, being unable to remember a phone number long enough to type it into a phone, um, to

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: um, few weeks not being able to walk long enough to take my dog out for a walk or to clean my house, right. Um, to like, um. In the first year, being able to like, get on a treadmill fully monitored for the first time or do a, um, a 30 minute or 32nd to a minute, uh, plank, right?

Um, so, uh, I, I, I was on kind of quite an [00:12:00] intensive rehabilitation journey to come back from that, um, and to really recover. Through that journey, you realize that you kind of oftentimes take two steps forward and then, you know, uh, three steps back. Right? Um, and learning to manage that. 'cause you know, I had this, I wanted to clinging to who I used to be, which was this ambitious, busy. Um, you know, active person that like could get up and run a race without training Right. To suddenly not being able to do even a 32nd plank. Right. Um, I really wanted to still be that person, but I, I couldn't and I, it was through with like my physical therapist that I really had to start to learn. Um, and my occupational therapist, like the, um, threshold management, so like really li starting to listen to my body of like, am I burning the battery of my energy? than I'm refilling it. Right. Um, because if I, if I do, then I kind of, I have a setback that, and those setbacks could be [00:13:00] like migraines and exhaustion for days. Right. Um, so I really had to start to tune into that and like manage that, those energy levels. Um, but then, you know, and honestly like I, I recovered after two years, like slowly but surely.

Um, you know, I, I was able to kind of climb out of that and, and funny enough, like when I started to let go of trying to recover, I recovered faster. Um, it was like this catch 22, like when I, I finally like started to say, you know, I'm just gonna trust this process and like, look at what is improving versus what the deficits are. Um, I really started to accelerate recovery. But I would say like even. Even after like, going through such an intensive lesson, it like, literally the universe like knocked me over the head and was like, stop, slow down. Um, and,

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: how to manage your energy. Um, I, I still like, I think was bad at it, know, like I still, like, I [00:14:00] got through recovery and then I was still kind of got back to this ambitious version of myself.

Um. It wasn't until like so fast forward, like, you know, nine or 10 years, um, I called my friend who, Jenna, who's the coach, and said, Hey, I'm in this job and I'm exhausted. And I am so exhausted. I can't even like imagine what's next for me. You know? And I, um. Like, I'm just, I'm burnt out. I need a change. I know I need to

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: I know I need to change my behaviors, I need to change my environment. I need to just kinda make changes. Um, but like, I don't know where to begin. I am exhausted. I don't know, like what that would even look like. Right. she, um, and I started to do some coaching again. And um, like, it was like really through her counsel that I started to take these incremental steps and make changes.

Right. Um.

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: like in that journey, I switched jobs, I bought a camper [00:15:00] van, and, um, I started to restructure like how my day looked and really started to get into this mantra that Jenna shared with me around rest is lucrative. I like,

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Hm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: wrote it

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: note and, um, tried to like really make it my mantra.

Um, uh, and it, I'm still like rewiring some of those things that kind of get in the way of the idea that breast is lucrative.

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: That's a really awesome story and I'm really sorry about the accident. Um, did they ever find that driver?

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: the driver and I pulled over and exchanged information. And here's the thing, a lot of people

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Okay.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: that way. Like, I'm so sorry you had to go through that. But if I am,

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: I feel like I've like reached a place of such radical acceptance for that. Um. And

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: and in a lot of ways, I'm actually really grateful I went through it.

Um,[00:16:00]

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: I, this

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: makes me a little emotional to share, but like

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: I think that I needed to learn so many things. One of those things also was like being vulnerable, not to let people come in and help me in life, you know? People like my

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: or my friends, or like the people that really stepped in. Um, and I probably wouldn't have the depth of relationship or, um, or the compassion for other people and

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: always see that they're struggling with.

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Right, right.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: hadn't gone through that journey myself, you know.

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Yeah, I hear that for sure. And um, I really resonate with your experience and I think we talked about it before. I also went through like a lot of health issues a little over a year ago. And I also tried really hard to come back, like immediately. And of course [00:17:00] that just did not work at all. And if anything.

The universe, like you mentioned, it's like, it, like it forced me to like really look at myself and my health. Like, what are you doing? Um, and I agree on the relationship side is, um, you know, I I was always very hard. It, it still is hard actually for me to ask for help and I think when. When I am, when I was just literally like physically unable to do things, the only solution needs to get help.

Um, and the fact that my partner and my friends and community really showed up for me, that was a very, that was also a really good lesson because I feel like you will never know who will be there for you until you ask. [00:18:00] Like who? Like how else are we gonna know? Because everyone will just assume you are okay.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: you, right? And until you give

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Yeah.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: I share with, um, my partner a lot of times. Like the invite is powerful, right? So like when you

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: people into your life to help you or invite people to experience life with you or to join you or to gather, right? The invite is this really powerful thing that says like, I care about you.

You care about me. We want to create something that is community together, right? Yeah.

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Yeah. Yeah. I really appreciate that and I'm so glad that, um, we're talking today. 'cause you know what a journey for you and every step of the way, you know, it, it just shapes who we are.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: Yeah. I mean, yeah, go ahead.

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: And, go ahead. No, you go ahead.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: like [00:19:00] unpacking even that notion of rest is lucrative. Like, I

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: so much rewiring to do around that idea, right? Like, I,

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: us, especially like if we're, if we love our to-do list and like checking it off, right? I sometimes I'll like

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: get into this and I call it a false belief now that if I just check off one more thing, even though I'm

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: I know.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: I'm hungry, or I've been sitting in this chair all day, you know, like if I can just check off one more thing, I'll feel better when the reality is like

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: better.

And that last task is probably very poorly done. You know, because

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: overspent my energy and I'm, I need to go recharge.

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: Um, and so the more I realized, like if

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Yep.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: take those breaks, if I step away, like I actually create better results. And if anything, actually sometimes I get things done faster.

Um, you know, so like sometimes

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: more rest I get, the faster and more effective I am. Right. Um, you [00:20:00] know, I've

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Yeah.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: this is funny. I've been playing those LinkedIn games every morning, um, to kinda warm up my brain. Uh, have you seen those?

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Oh yeah,

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: little like.

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: I have seen those. Yeah. Sometimes I get a notification. Yeah.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: like if I, um, if I haven't gotten a full night of sleep, I'm way slower than average. Right. Um, if I,

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: like haven't taken the time to have my morning coffee and like do a morning routine, I'm like, slower than average. Right. So if I just jump right into work too

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: um, or

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: try to do it like at the end of the day after a long work, so like I've been playing with this like, almost as like a metric of like what influences my, what I think is me being like speedy and productive, know?

And I, I realize these little games

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: indicate like, my brain doesn't work as well if I just haven't done the, the rest part of the day, you know? Yeah.

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Yeah. Yeah, I totally agree. I feel [00:21:00] like in our society, uh, at least in the US we just consider, uh, doing something fast equals to doing something well. But that's oftentimes not the case. And like the quantity that we want to, uh, get, like, okay, how, how many, how many words can you type in one minute? You know, people have that kind of game or like test.

I'm like, doesn't matter why.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: cost to speed,

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: You know, like we, yeah, yeah. We just want things fast and fast and fast, but sometimes we, we just let go of the quality, um, of the things we do and as a result, we let go some of the quality of life as well.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: true. I mean, you

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Um.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: on every level, right? Like you walk into a store and like how much, know, it's just lines and lines [00:22:00] of cheaply made polyester things, right? And it's because we wanted fast and new and, um, versus like something that's really quality or like, even in my line of work, like sometimes the most creative. Thoughtful ideas come from like a long marination period, and that marination moment might have been like, wandering around in the woods, you know? Um, and then like come back and be like, aha, I get it. Like I can answer the thing now. Right. Um, I think, you know, recognizing that that's part of the process and like building it in, to activate that creativity. Mm.

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Yeah, I totally agree, and thank you for sharing that lesson as well. Um, I also really like, you know, in addition to Janice Wi Wisdom, rest is lucrative. And you mentioned Invite is powerful and I really want to address that as well. Um, I think that's the beginning of building a community. Like if we don't ask [00:23:00] people to come into our lives, like people need you now.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: I know actually, you know, um, this reminds me Joe, uh, in theater. Um, so I grew up as a, like a theater kid. I did a lot of ballet and music and. which is probably why I get invited to like moderate panels now for clients. But, um, I, uh, we have a, there's like a, a, a concept that like if it's not said out loud, it doesn't exist to the

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: right?

So that's why when you watch like a Shakespearean play, they like are overtly monologuing their every thought and feeling or like in the dialogue between them. They're saying more than. What is actually typically said in a interaction? You know, there's a lot of, there's like, everybody has their internal thoughts and then their outward thoughts that are happening. But in theater, like you can't follow the whole depth of the experience of the story or the narrative on stage unless it's spoken, right? So, the same

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Right.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: true in a lot of [00:24:00] things we do in life, right? Like, unless it's said out loud. People don't know really, you know? Um, and so it's like there's a, like almost bringing that theatrics to life actually just makes us more clear, right?

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Yeah. That's so cool because I just. Kind of like ties that your background, um, as a theater kid and you know, stating things out loud. I'm like, of course your business is called Statement.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: you for sharing that with me. Yeah.

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: You know, it's like I gotta make a statement. It needs to be announced. It needs to be said. I mean, I, I see that connection there, like even from when you were a child.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: I do a lot of storytelling presentations, a lot in like, you know, folks that are trying to grow their business by doing better pitching or better sales enablement, right? [00:25:00] And so

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: is, is like, you know, who we are as a brand and what we stand for and what we're great at, and um, you know how we can do that for you. Uh, but I find when I'm listening for that story and I'm starting to create it, there's something that, like what's happening in my brain is a little bit choreography for ballet or music or theater, right? So I'm

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Right.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: all the dimensions of like. What's

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Yeah.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: the frame or like what would've been on a stage.

Right. Um, what, where are all the pieces, like what are all the visuals? Like, how do we make that come to life? Both from a verbal and a visual perspective. And I always say like, you know when it's right, when it just sort of sings and that feeling of like it's singing

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: um, and

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: of you who can't say I'm air quoting, singing, um. Um,

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: uh, uh,

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Yep.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: that it sings is, is a little bit of that intuition that we all have when, [00:26:00] when it comes to storytelling. Um. But it's a little bit of that, like, you know, knowing when a performance is ready to be shown, um, like all the pieces have come together, like the music and the choreography and the voice and the intonation and like all the pieces come together.

Right. Um, it's similar

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: for corporate businesses, right? You, you know, it

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: feels right. There's like an intuitive, like that makes sense. It looks clear, it looks, you know, right. You know? Yeah.

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Yeah. That's so interesting. I feel like a lot of the, um, practitioners and consultants that I have talked to or interviewed. Almost everyone has an artistic side, like almost everyone. Some are like painting, some are like poetry, and for you it's a theater performance and for some it's like photography or instrument, like [00:27:00] almost every single one that I know that does consulting or independent work.

Almost everyone has an artistic side. It's fascinating.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: years trying to figure out how to integrate those two. Um, you mentioned photography. When I'm out in our van trips, I take a lot of nature photography and that's actually all the. photography you see in our branding is stuff that I've taken aside from the, um, the like portraits.

But like all the nature of photography is just from my actual trips. It's, it's one like micro way that I can integrate that part of my life into my business. Um,

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Yes,

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: do also paint, um, and I haven't quite figured out how to bring that in, but, um, but yeah, there is something like on, how do you like, talk about intersectionality or how do you, how do you bring.

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: of yourself together, right?

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Yes. Uh, of I want to introduce a friend of mine to [00:28:00] you, and I just wrote down her name and I will make the introduction because. Yeah, they do a lot of photo work and, uh, very artistically and centered in storytelling. . I will make the introduction. I, I feel you two will have a, a blast. Um. So let's talk about your camper van, your van life. Uh, you purchased a van during your recovery, uh, if I remembered correctly.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: quite a bit after,

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Um

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: my head injury was

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: 10 years ago. And then. And when I switched roles, when I did this dramatic kind of, um, career shift, uh, gosh, about, you know, four, maybe years ago now, um. maybe right, right around there. Uh, I, I landed a new role that was fully remote, um, with a supportive manager.

And I, um, I knew that I wanted to buy this camper van. We, my partner and I, were kind of [00:29:00] nerds, like we've, um, gone to multiple trade shows for tiny homes and RVs and camper vans, and we found, well, actually, we, we bought an empty van thinking we were gonna build it, and then that fell through. Um, it, it was like this, uh, glorified moving van sitting in our. for a year. And then we, we sold that and we, we bought this one that was brand new, off the shelf, um, from a company called, uh, Dave and Matt Vans. They make, um, they're, they're a certified RV builder and a certified, um, uh, Ram dealer. So it just made it like financial sense. It was from a se like a security of like a build sense.

Like it, it, it just kind of made sense all around. And they do these beautiful builds, um, uh, that we're obsessed with. I think my friends probably feel like, um, van life, like hashtag van life is just short of my whole personality now. Um, because we, we talk about it all the time. We try to convince everybody we know [00:30:00] to get a van.

Um, we we're just. We love it. We love the idea of being out on the open road and seeing the world and, um, experiencing all of our national parks, which is probably the best thing the US has done for us is, you know, created the

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Yeah.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: Um, yeah, we're just, we're obsessed. So.

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: And how has it shaped your kind of, um, you know, these. Era of your life is, um, maybe you are still in some of the recovery journey, but mostly post recovery and, uh, post burnout and living this van life. Uh, and with the appreciation of rest, like how does these kind of, on the road. Mentality shapes you as a person.

And, uh, I'm also curious about like, [00:31:00] what are the national parks you liked?

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: course. Um, I, I think we've had some really profound learnings from being in the van, um, when we. Uh, when we first got the van, we intended to do just kind of weekenders and just be able to get out and see Oregon and, and

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: northwest and the west coast. Right. Um,

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: we decided we wanted to do a, um, like a bigger trip down the west coast.

We did the whole, you know, the 1 0 1 and and whatnot down, um, the west coast. And, uh, when we embarked on that journey, that was actually really kind of stressful to start that because, you know, you're, you're going to, you're planning to be away from home. You're like, I have to pack for a couple different seasons. Um, and

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: and circumstances and this tiny little space. Um, you think about like all the things that could go wrong, like it's in my nature as a consultant to be always looking for the potholes, right? And like, what are all the things that can go wrong and how do I plan for [00:32:00] that? And. felt infinite and we were planning to be gone for like six to seven weeks.

Right? So, in fact, my therapist, I had her, I was on the phone with her like every week and she joked with me. She was like, Sarah, this is kind of like immersion therapy for you in spontaneity and letting go and embracing whatever comes in a resourceful way. And she was so

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: I think one of my really big, profound learnings from that trip was that, um, you know. we can build a muscle of flexibility and adaptation. That's just something that we have to practice and then build tools and resources around. Um, with our van, I try to

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: inside. The van is really predictable for my workday and for living. Um, like I have my, um, matcha latte every morning.

Um, I know that sounds really bougie for Van Life, but, um, I, I have this little $20 frother that just. Does its thing.

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Oh, cool.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: to make everything really predictable in the van. 'cause outside the van it's very unpredictable. We're in a different [00:33:00] place. We don't always know the people. We don't know the, the directions all the time. Um, but the other one was that, I mean, this kind of ties to that is like. Stability is not something that we really get from like buying a house or living, you know, in the same routine every day, or that, um, it's, or like even, you know, the, the partnerships that we build or whatnot, like stability is really, I mean, like those things do feel like stability, but even deeper than

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: stability is like this mindset that you generate and that you choose to bring to every day.

Right. So like, when.

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: When things were unpredictable in the van, like the weather or, um, or like, you know, we, uh, couldn't find the internet or the inner goes out or, um, you know, we, uh, you know, something happens with our reservations or whatever it is that might be unpredictable. Like we, in those moments, we get to choose to be stability, right. And we get to

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: to [00:34:00] be like, I'm gonna be calm, I'm gonna be resourceful. I'm gonna figure it out. And so like, my,

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: like, now my sense of stability is like, it's not all these things, these external things that we create and try to control and manage that, it's more so like this mindset that we choose to bring to whatever chaos we're facing.

Right?

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: that was one of the more profound things. Um. you know, I've had also, I've had a lot of fun. Like I met, I've met clients for meetings in, you know, in my van in Bend, Oregon, and did a pitch in

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Oh.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: room and then they got a van tour and I was like, man, I think I've, have, I made it. Yeah.

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: That's really cool. Um, I agree with you. I feel like a lot of us in modern society, we also see these kind of like milestones, right? In life airports, it's like buying a house. It's like a lot of people, I [00:35:00] say I want to buy a house, which is cool. It's great. We, we all aspire to do that and some of us are lucky enough to be able to afford it at the same time, like.

A lot of us still, um, see a house as stability. Um, but we don't realize a house is not necessarily home. I mean, I feel there is a difference between a house as a structure or property versus. A home, which is, I feel in a way more spiritual and people say, home is where I am. Right? It's like wherever you are, wherever you feel supported and calm and um, resourceful, et cetera, that's where home is.

So, yeah. That's really profound. Thank you.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: I like that idea. You know, you see that those, like home is where my van is, um, like and things.

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: right. It,

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Good.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: I agree. It's even [00:36:00] more than that. It's, it's home where home is wherever you feel most at ease. And, and then like, it's not just like this thing that you sometimes experience. It's, it's a thing you have to generate.

Like we have to create that sense of ease. Right.

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm. Definitely. And that takes a lot of inner work and reflection as well. I mean, talk about. Um, you know, a lot of things we can do to help calm our minds, like meditation or like journaling or, you know, being in nature. Like it really is internal work and I wanna advocate for more folks to do that, especially for folks who are.

You know, have a very independent life that's like you and I, like, if you go to the office every day, say, say you have a full-time job, or say if you work with a full team, right? Um, I'm not saying that's [00:37:00] always the case. At the same time, you have a few more. You know, points of contact during a day that you can talk to and can process.

But for you and I, a lot of that we are processing internally. So how can we, almost like a training, train our minds to be that resource for ourselves, that kind of calming, uh, capacity or ability really.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: Learning. It's like adult self-soothing, right? You teach babies to self-soothe, right? yeah,

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Right, right.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: a different version of that as an adult. Right. had a, I was doing a

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Yes.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: cultural project for a client recently, and, um, part of that was interviewing all these leaders and, um, one of these leaders just seemed largely unaffected by, um, kind of the same stressors that the rest of the team did.

And I probed into it and I was like, tell me

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: about it. Um, [00:38:00] this individual shared with me, like their philosophy on, um, like a lot of things, but one of 'em that has, that I've started to incorporate is this idea of like the daily mini vacation. Like, you know, sometimes you have a full

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: on, you're back to backs, but if you can just take a moment to have a mini vacation.

And I think that is twofold. One, he's taking a breath break. Um, but you know, two. Like actually processing it, like this is my vacation, you know? And that like

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: and um, uh, internalizing of that allows you to kind of rest in a better way? I think so it's more than

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: take a

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: which might feel like a chore.

It's more like, this is my vacation around the block. Right. Yeah. So

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: I see. Okay.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: Um,

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Huh.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: yeah.

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Yeah, I mean, it's just like a rest is lucrative, right? It's like, it's how we, like the narrative we give ourselves. If I go take a walk, I'm wasting [00:39:00] time. No, you are not. You are taking care of yourself. Like you are allowed to take 10 minutes or 15 minutes to have that mini reset or vacation.

Um, but it really is about the story we tell ourselves. How are we, well, like whether or not we are even allowed to do this, I mean, this is for ourselves, so I mean, it really goes deeper into how every individual was raised or educated under this current system.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: like, am

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Um,

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: break? Right? I,

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: yes.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: used to play these mental mind tricks with myself of like, you know, I, like, I will be deserving, or I can give myself a break if I just do this thing, or if I hit this milestone right. And

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: untangle that, you know, is really hard.

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: and

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: this like mantra of like, no, you deserve a [00:40:00] break because you need a break or because you want a break. There doesn't need to be like a reason for the break. Like you just go do the break. Right. Um, and so I think,

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Yeah.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: getting like untangling that notion of like, I will allow myself if right. More so

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: this is, this is important too. This is as important as the most important thing on your to-do list, right? Yeah,

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Yeah. Yeah. It really is about like the kind of this kind of like, uh, awarding system. At least that's how I was raised is you cannot watch TV unless you finish homework. You cannot eat snacks unless you finished your dinner first. Like there's always a trade, like it's always a negotiation and I, there is value to that.

I do agree. It teaches a kid to, you know, grow up and eventually become an adult. I [00:41:00] also feel like it makes us wonder like, do I deserve this? Do I deserve this cake? You know, like, am I allowed to do this? And it's double edged sword, I think,

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: just the balance, right? Because like if you, if you're like, I deserve a break and you just take a vacation for a year, but you don't have the funds to do that. Like, there's sort of things like where it's like striking

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: right?

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: right? Um, I mean, I, I will even still do a reward system for myself.

Like if I win this, you know, big project, um, I will.

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: thing that I've had on my list, you know? Um, but it's

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: I'm not saying, oh, I just am deserving, but like, you know, I'm deserving. I'm

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Right.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: is already there, but whether it's makes financial sense to make that

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: transaction today, you know, we should consider right. So, yeah.

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Yeah, definitely. I mean, we still live in this capitalistic society, um, but how do we want to kind of manage that relationship with [00:42:00] it, like the inter, inter, the, the inner world as well as the outer world. I think that's, that's kind of like a lifelong inner conversation or dialogue we have with ourselves, and I think that's really interesting.

So thank you for sharing your van life.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: Thanks for asking about it.

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Cool. Uh, what are the ones you liked? The national parks.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: yes. So what, uh, things that are popping out to me, um, we did, uh, so you know, we did Yellowstone and Tetons. Earlier this year. Um, what was amazing about Yellowstone is that we got to see the, the big animals, right? We got to see like the grizzlies and we saw wolves brought their wolf babies, like the, the s down,

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Oh.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: out of the den the day that we were there.

And we got to see that. Um, and, and, uh, Yellowstone is just fascinating. It's actually, it's. of the, it was the

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: park. It was the park or the area [00:43:00] that, um, inspired the national parks. Right. And the idea of reserving them,

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: because you

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: and the waterfalls and the. know, you just have so many diverse things and big abundant wildlife.

Right.

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: were amazing this year just because that, that, um, ridge line of the Tetons is just so fascinating and you see it at sunrise and sunset and the different times of day and it just, it's so colorful and

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Yeah.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: Um, there's also glaciers and, you know, go see them while they still exist.

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: Uh, I also got to take a photo of. A black bear yards away from me, um, across a very small river. I mean, that, that bear could have been upon me within moments, but I got this really cool photo of it. Um, yeah. And,

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Okay.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: you know, other ones that I think, uh, like, you know, that are not always as highlighted like Bryce Canyon is, um, I mean, it's one of the big ones, but I think Zion is highlighted a lot

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: Bryce was just so [00:44:00] fascinating to have those, the, what they call 'em, the hoodoos, the rock formation. Um, and they're in, uh, a huge repetition and they, um, it just looks like this, like army of rock formations. Um, I just

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: so fascinating and there was a, there's a lot of storytelling in that area around coyotes that is very spiritual.

And, um, I

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: I found it to be, um, a really interesting, beautiful. Like fascinating landscape, you know?

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Yeah. I mean, nature really can teach us and it's ever changing. Like I think that's the, the real, real magician is nature.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: it's also, it's,

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Uh,

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: uh, Joe, like, I'm thinking about so much more like redwoods. You walk through redwoods and you're like, these trees talk, like they, they have

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: they do.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: to us, like, if you are there listening, right? Um, there are hundreds of years old, like

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Yes.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: people and things and, and like. that they have lived through. Like I just, [00:45:00] I

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: area to be kind of magical. Yeah.

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Yeah, definitely. There is so much to learn and like, I really don't think there are, um, at least for me, I don't have the proper vocabulary to really describe what it feels like to walk in those woods. It's, it's just incredible. Yeah.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: would just kind of walk through and imagine what each of them has to say. I mean, I, I, I have no way of empirically telling you that, but I just sense that

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: um, a lot of life happening in those woods, you know?

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Definitely. And a lot of learning too, and I feel really encouraged folks. Um, to visit the national parks whenever you can, and you, if you have the means and ability and, you know, every year there are free national park days that are available for visitors. So people can also take advantage of that if, again, if you have the ways to do [00:46:00] that.

It's really, really beneficial. Um, just really good for ourselves. Um, and yeah. And as we, you know, um, we are near the end of, uh, our conversation, and as we know, you and I are both like independent practitioners. Um, I wonder if you would have any wisdom or advice in addition to what you've already shared.

Like a, a, a concise, simple, like a statement like kind of advice for entrepreneurs or solo printer out there.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: my, my statement would be, just get started. You don't have to have it all figured out. if I were to elaborate on that, it would be, um, you know, the, the best way to. To grow a business is to kind of learn out loud and that learning [00:47:00] out loud

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Okay.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: um, maybe that's the statement, Joe, learn out loud. Um, what

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Um.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: by that is like, know, you, if you are kind of in your own little vacuum where you're brainstorming your ideas or the products or the solutions that you have. Um, you're, you have a, a test audience of one, and we tend to be our own worst critics

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: get in our own way. Right. But if you can. Actually share that with the world and bring it out to your community to ask for feedback. Um, try it on for size with clients. Try it on, you know, kind of learn out loud, like share it with the world.

Get that

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Yes.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: that feedback. You'll actually rapidly grow faster and you don't have to have the whole thing

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: can have it kind of just an idea, like a little acorn of a thing, and then let it

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Mm-hmm.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: organically by learning out loud with your community. Right. And. I think that's a way to kind of build momentum, to create something, to get that [00:48:00] feedback loop that is energizing for you and actually puts you in the right path. Um, is, uh, is doing that learning out loud.

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: I love that and I feel, once again, that ties back to your theater background.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: It's not, it's not real until it's spoken. Yeah.

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Yes. It, it, I, I totally agree and a lot of us are kind of like pro. Perfectionist adjacent, and that that could be in the way of, um, growing as a practitioner. Um, and I know people can find you on your website statement code io and where else can people find you and work with you?

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: on LinkedIn. Um, I am sometimes on Instagram these days, but, uh, LinkedIn, my website, you can email hello@statementco.io.

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: That's great, and if I [00:49:00] search hashtag Van Life, I might find you.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: it's true. Um, yeah, if you wanna see my adventures, my uh, Instagram handle is Sarah Cargill.

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Got it. And with that, uh, that concludes our chat today. And thank you so much, Sarah, for coming in. It was, I, yeah, it was really great. I learned a lot. And thank you for sharing your journey.

sarah-cargill--she-her-_1_12-10-2025_110417: the best part of my day, was just hit and ponder with you all of these really important topics. So thank you for having me.

zhou_1_12-10-2025_110417: Oh, of course I'm honored. Okay, let me stop recording here.