"What Is That Throughline? What Is It That Really Connects Us To This Place And Time?" with Eunice Brownlee, on Travel and Storytelling, Using Senses to Explore, and Making Dreams Come True.

Zhou Fang: . [00:00:00] All right, we are rolling. Hello everyone. Welcome to the intersection, a podcast program about intersectionality, intersectional identities, and of course, intersectional journeys, and they're all very interconnected and every journey.

Comes with a story and behind every story there is a real person. And today I'm thrilled to have a friend, a peer, and a colleague, um, on the program. And she might be the first person ever on the program who is not in the us. By the time we record, I could be wrong. So correct me listeners if I'm wrong, but, um, I have the absolute pleasure to welcome uni.

Uh, bro Lee, currently she's in Portugal and she is a keynote speaker. He's also a speaker coach as [00:01:00] well as a senior writer and editor, and I will invite Eunice to introduce herself. Welcome Eunice.

Eunice Brownlee: Thank you so much for having me, Cho. This has been a wonderful experience and um, I love that you had this idea that we waited to record this until I was here in Portugal and that I was here for a few days before I got to. Got to speak with you. So, um, thank you for that lovely introduction. Um, as Joe mentioned, I am a speaker and a speaker coach.

Um, but primarily what I dig into when I do my work is storytelling. So, um, I'm definitely a creative that has worked for many, many years in the mediums of storytelling. With photography and marketing, and now I primarily do that through writing and speaking. And so one of the things that I really love is this intersectional identity of my creative [00:02:00] powers, right?

Mm-hmm. And I'm learning how to weave this into my passion for travel. And I was actually just writing about this this morning of how, how do I. How do I bring travel into the work I'm doing? And the thing is, is that travel is also about storytelling. Mm. It's about identifying stories, collecting stories, um, creating stories.

And so, um, it really fills my identity a lot to merge these two things, travel and story.

Zhou Fang: Oh, I really appreciate that. I actually hadn't thought too much about it, like the relationship between travel and storytelling, but it's true. It's like every time I come back from a trip or I go somewhere for a trip, people always ask How, how's the trip?

And then we will tell a story to describe how it's the trip. So. I mean, it's [00:03:00] up to the person to um, decide, you know, in what way they wanna share the story. A lot of people use the photos they take, uh, on a trip to tell the story, or sometimes people just tell a story and I think that's very fascinating.

That's. A really good, um, I, I think making connection between travel and storytelling and of course when you are at a new place, there's just so many stories to be discovered and to learn about. And, um, I know you are in Porto, Portugal right now. Um, and this isn't your first time, if I remember correctly.

So what brings you back?

Eunice Brownlee: You remember correctly? Um, so one of the things that has allowed me to travel more full time is I have been, uh, I have been using a service called Trusted House sitters, [00:04:00] and I have found. Places to house, sit and pet, sit all over the world. And I've been doing this for just over a year now.

I started at the end of December, 2024. And, um, it's a very unique experience to go into complete strangers' homes and take care of their animals for the time that they're away. And so, um, this is actually my second time here in Porto. And I get to stay in their, their house and explore their neighborhoods and their local spaces.

Um, and I get to do that all over the world. So I was here in Porto back in December. With, uh, a couple that I met over trusted house sitters and, um, it gave me the opportunity to come here. But the week that I was here, I was so, so sick, and so the only piece of town that I really got to see was the pharmacy and the grocery store.

Um, important, I mean, the most important [00:05:00] thing, I mean, I walked into the pharmacy and my first thing was like, do you speak English? Let me tell you what is going on with me. Here's what I think I need, because one of the things that I learned about traveling through Europe is that, um, the same medicines that we have in the us, they're not the same.

Like not all of the same medications are available. Hmm. And so it was like. Or even the same brand. So it was like trying to talk to, talk to the pharmacist about what I thought I needed. And so then it was like walking through my symptoms. But anyway, and then I went, walked over to the grocery store and got the things to make some chicken soup and I made that.

And um, I had one day out of the whole week I was here before that, I felt well enough to venture out and, uh, of course I went to the bookstore. Um mm-hmm. The, there's a, a place called Lira, Liberia, Lelo, and it's the Mo World's most beautiful bookstore. Um, definitely a tourist trap. The only thing that it's worth it is for, um, the photo hops that are [00:06:00] there, but it is a really beautiful space.

And so, um, and then I got to walk down around the waterfront. Um, so this, this time that I'm back, I've been here about a week. I'll be here till, um, the end of the week and, mm-hmm. It's felt like a do over. It's been really cool 'cause I've gotten to get out and explore and the weather is super nice. Nice.

Um, it's been like 70 degrees every day. Gets down to like 45 at night, but um, I Not bad at all. It's not bad at all. Like the other night I did a tile painting workshop, which I picked those up today and I was just laughing because. Mine. They, they, they're not good. Doesn't matter. I was so proud of myself.

I was like, these are gonna turn out great. Turns out once they melt into the glass, that's not, they, they don't co ah, but when I stepped off the train to come back home that night, it was probably around eight 30 and I, I. [00:07:00] Just paused and I grabbed my voice recorder because I had to remember this and describe exactly what I was feeling and experiencing in that moment because it was just so powerful.

And what happened was I. Stepped off the train and I got this whiff of something that smelled so delicious and it was like this earthy peay dirt because there's a vineyard right by the train station that I walked past to get down there. And, um. It was just like, I don't know how to describe it to somebody, but it had like that sweet freshly tilled earth, like freshly mowed grass kind of damp, but in that joyous way.

And I'm like, I wish you could capture smells because I would bottle this smell up and take, I have not smelled it since. Huh. I don't know why I smelled it that day, but it was just so beautiful that I was like, I'm gonna cry so hard right now. [00:08:00] This is gorgeous. Did it rain? It hadn't, it hasn't rained the whole time I've been here.

Okay. But it was, it was kind of like that kind of a freshness right after it rains, but it wasn't that same smell. I see. Um, but like that, that's the stuff that you experience mm-hmm. When you get to travel Right. Is like mm-hmm. I've never smelled anything like that before or since. Mm-hmm. Um, I keep kind of trying to chase it these last couple nights.

I'm like, what was going on that one night that just, that was Friday night. It was like, what was happening? I don't know. Well, if you chase it, it won't come back. You have to let it come to you. That is true. Yeah. That's really cool. I love it. I feel like everything you described, you know, the first time you were sick and now you have a do-over and then you get to experience the place, you know, with a different kind of capacity.

I think that in itself is like the story we have when we travel. Mm-hmm. And that reminds me, you know, like. It's actually pretty [00:09:00] easy to get sick when we travel, and that in itself, it's like a learning experience. It's like so humbling. It's like, you know, when we are in our familiar environment, everything seems fine, but when you are in kind of like a new place, like a foreign place, immediately you are like.

Okay. You need to stay humble like, 'cause we need to take care of ourselves when we travel and when we get sick we need to rely on local support. Right. Like you go to the pharmacy, you ask them for help, like language assistance as well. And Yeah, like at times I, you know, when I travel, if I eat something that's like, doesn't sit well with me, I also have to go to the urgent care and mm-hmm.

That's always like. It is a good reminder, like you are not invincible. Like be humble and just, you know, you have to learn to be [00:10:00] in a different space. So, yeah, and I, and I also think that there's something about it too, that there's that. If, if we're traveling, there's this idea of like, I'll never get to do this again.

Like there's, there's so much of this idea that things are a once in a lifetime experience. True. And that may be true, but um, especially when you're traveling full-time, like I have been, like, there have been days. When I have been in a new city that I've never been in before and I just didn't have the capacity to go out and explore.

And there was part of me that felt a little bit guilty for staying in bed. Yeah. And it was like, oh no, no. If you don't have capacity to get out and explore, how are you going to enjoy whatever it is that you discover? Mm-hmm. Like it's okay to rest even while you're traveling. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I love down. So sometimes we need that reminder too, that like.

There's, there's so many people that I know that travel with these like jam packed itineraries. Um, a few years ago, I remember going [00:11:00] to Hawaii with a friend for their, um, 10th wedding anniversary. They were doing a vow renewal and they had excursions planned every single day for the entire we were there and they were like, Hey, we're gonna do these things and if you can join us.

Then we would love to have you, and I think it was the third or fourth day that they were like, we have too much. We canceled this and this and this, and this, and this. Um, because they just recognized that they were, they were really trying to like, do the things to check off the boxes and not like mm-hmm.

Experience the place and like mm-hmm. Slow down and just savor it. Like for me. The best way to experience a place is to just take a walk. Yeah. Same. Maybe find, maybe find some food. Same. Um, and just see what you discover. Like I ended up in this, it's so funny. This afternoon I walked down to pick up my, I took the train into town and then I walked to pick up my tiles, and then I decided that I wanted to go see if I could find this bridge that I wanted [00:12:00] to, that I came across the other night.

And, um. And I found it, and then I was like, okay, I'm gonna walk over here and I'm gonna get some lunch and it'll be really lovely. And I walked along the waterfront and, um, decided not to get lunch at the place that it looked better online than it did when I got there. And I was just like, so then I walked up this little street and then cut through this little alley and I kind of popped out onto this other street and I looked around, I was like, ah, I know where I'm, and I actually said it out loud.

To where like, I don't think anybody heard me, but it was just, I had this moment of pride that I wasn't using my navigation skills. 'cause I knew exactly where I was and I had only been on that corner one other time in my life. Mm-hmm. But I knew, I was like, oh yeah, so if I keep walking straight and I turn right, that's gonna be where the train station is.

Like I know where I am. Um, and so that was just really delightful. That's wonderful. It's like a sense of wonder, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I [00:13:00] think what I keep hearing is, you know, you really utilize your senses when you travel. It's not just what you see and also what you smell at the taste. And then you'll feel right, like mm-hmm.

I'm like the same, like we walk a lot when we travel and then we follow the smell too. It's like, oh, something smells good and then I'm gonna check it out. And then, or even sounds, sounds, I have lots of voice recordings of just the things that I'm hearing. When I hear something that's interesting, I'm like, Ooh, this is good.

And I'll throw on the. Notes recorder and just capture the sound. Mm-hmm. Um, because I was, I was trying to find this recording I was telling a friend about when I was in Italy back in October, there was like a, a, a karaoke bar across the street from where I was staying. Mm-hmm. And. Every time they like, every little while they would have, like, they would sing Happy Birthday in Italian, but it was so funny 'cause they would sing it in the regular, like happy birthday tune.

Oh. And then they would have this like disco [00:14:00] transition where it'd be like, and then they would go into like this funky disco version of Happy Birthday. And it was so funny. Oh my God. And I was like, I swear I took a, a recording of that and I finally did find it because it was just so hilarious. Was that like a local, like a local that's just a do, right?

Like a local restaurant or like that? Yeah. Yeah. It was just, and there were a lot of birthdays that night, so I'm glad that I was able to capture. Wow. Because I could, I was like, oh, I know what's gonna happen. I know what's gonna happen now. Well, okay. Did you make a video too? No, 'cause I was up, like I had to already had the shutters down and like I would've had to open the shutters and like get out on the balcony and so I just took a voice recording, but that's funny.

Yeah. Yeah, no, yeah. You experience it with all of your senses. Yeah, exactly. And you know, I, I would like to, um, maybe tie these kind of [00:15:00] experiences or explorations to your, uh, kind of speaking career or like co coaching career. 'cause now you know. It is a privilege, right? Like you can be anywhere and you can still work with your clients.

Um mm-hmm. 'cause you know, you have like a remote job basically. And I wonder how does that, you know, being. Being a traveler and being a coach and a speaker at the same time, how has that impact you? Um, and I don't want to say like work first, right? Like life first, but how has that enhanced your experience, um, as a teacher?

Basically like teaching people to speak and help people, uh, improve their, uh, um, maybe storytelling skills as well. Like how does that Yeah. I love that. Well, I think there's a [00:16:00] couple of different ways that, that this helps. Um, for me, one of the things that I love to do when I travel is I like to go on tours.

Mm-hmm. Um, especially guided tours by locals, because those tours are always filled with storytelling. Mm-hmm. There was a gentleman at the museum at the, um, Bletchley Park Museum in. In the UK who was telling us, he said, you know, here's the thing, like you could come back and do this tour every single day this week with a different guide and you will get a different experience.

Because we tell the, we tell different stories. We tell the ones that resonate with us. We tell the ones that, um, we think the people that are in our, our tour group might enjoy. And so. You do get to connect with a place because you get to hear its stories, but not only are you hearing the stories from that angle, you're hearing it from that perspective of that person.

Right. So like I was in Vietnam in January and I [00:17:00] was in Saigon, district four, um, where the guide that I had, he was born and raised. He was probably in his mid thirties, but he was telling us all about. What it was like when his aunts and uncles left Vietnam in 1980. Like they snuck out of the country.

They were part of the Vietnamese, the Vietnamese boat people. Yeah. And how his uncle ended up getting arrested and had to spend six years in prison because he was trying to leave the country and like, wow. I'm not just hearing this like history of Vietnam. I know of these things. I'm hearing it from like a secondhand first generation.

Experience, right? Like there's just something that's more special about that, of hearing these stories. And so it's like. Taking the storytelling that I'm exposing to just, it's just like writing, right? Like you get to be a better writer, you get to be a better storyteller. Mm-hmm. By exposing yourself to stories, by reading more, by watching movies, by getting out and traveling and [00:18:00] hearing other stories, experiencing other stories, because then you start to learn like, what is that through line?

What is it that really connects us to this, this place and time. Hmm. I love that. That's very powerful too. I mean, like you said, a lot of the things we learn from history books, we kind of know what happened, but we don't really, it's like because what is the human part there? Mm-hmm. Right? Like history, there's no history with without a humans in it.

So every time you hear a, a local, like hear a local telling us a story that's, that actually happened. It's like a real person went through it. I think the human part is really cool. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's a, it, it gives you a different perspective. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, totally. And like also the perspective from whom, right?

It's like mm-hmm. When we learn the history, for example, about Vietnam, it's always, uh, Americanized kind of version. Mm-hmm. But then you [00:19:00] go there, you hear a local tells you, oh, this happened to my uncle. You're like, oh, that has like a real impact. To that person. Absolutely. Well, one of the places that I visited this fall, and that's a place I've wanted to visit since I was 15, was I went to Auschwitz and that was a really, really somber day.

Mm-hmm. Um. Of course it was November, so it was like cold and rainy. It was like 40 degrees and, um, drizzly a little bit, so like the, the weather fit the mood. But our right tour guide was telling us, like she was telling us various stories as well, but she was telling us how the camps were liberated in April, 1945.

And the survivors came back in September and started giving tours and started telling their stories. Whoa. Because they didn't wanna wait. And let the stories be lost. They wanted people to remember the atrocities that had happened there, and that was just so powerful to me because it was just like, wow, I could not imagine going through.[00:20:00]

Well, I thought I couldn't, I could, I thought I couldn't imagine going through the hardest thing I've ever been through and then returning to talk about it. But that's really what kicked off my speaking career was I went through the hardest thing that I had ever gone through. Yeah. And I, I'm not the only one experiencing this and I need to talk about it.

Hmm. And so. I, I guess I can imagine what that's like to be a survivor of something. Yeah. And then share my story so that other people can learn from it. That's so wild. I mean, yes, I feel, um. I mean, I, I mean, I have goosebumps just hearing you saying, you know, um, people who were liberated from the camps, they, they went back basically right away to tell the story.

And, um, I mean there's something really like visceral and it just [00:21:00] resonating with others is. The the need or the want of, you know, needing the story to be heard or like, choose to be told, I feel. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And taking ownership of the narrative. I feel like that that was part of it too, is that they really wanted to make sure that the story was told in the way that honored the experience that they had.

Yeah. And also, you know, when you say, um, after you went through, um. Some very difficult. Hardships in your life, you also felt the need of talking about it because you are not the only person. And I actually felt that too. Um, like, you know, back in the days I felt like there's no way I'm the person, only person experiencing this kind of like, say discrimination or inequity.

Right. And I felt a need to [00:22:00] share it, and I did. And, and it was. It wasn't like a huge audience, maybe a couple hundred of people, but I can still remember when people came up to me and said, thank you for sharing. 'cause I went through the same thing. Mm-hmm. Yes. Um, yeah, I think that is something, you know, as storytellers, I don't know.

It's, it's so, it's so precious. Well, it builds connection, right? Yeah. 'cause here's a person that you may not otherwise have any reason to ever talk to, and yet you have this shared experience mm-hmm. That I can understand. I can relate to you and for me that that's the power of storytelling. Mm-hmm.

Whether you're talking about a hard thing that you went through or you're talking about something amazing that you did. Right? Yep. Yep. Um. [00:23:00] I think that's why, like, I think that's why humans have used storytelling for since the dawn of time, right? Yeah. How we've passed our history down. Yeah. It's how we've talked to each other.

It's how we've, um, connected. It's how we've preserved the lineage and, um. The cultures Right. Is through storytelling. Like this is just, it's part of human nature to tell stories. Yeah, and I wanna say, especially I feel in. Different cultures all over the world. Um, we have all kinds of storytellers and oftentimes they are the, the grandmother, they're the mothers.

Mm-hmm. So I feel, um, women usually carry the role. And the responsibility of passing down the story and the story, uh, and the history. And of course I feel there are a lot of like medicine people or spiritual leaders, they [00:24:00] also pass down the history and the story. Um, but I'm very curious, you know, from your.

Experience and practice. 'cause you work, you do work with a lot of women speakers. Mm-hmm. Um, how has that been, you know, for you, because you are a storyteller yourself and then you work with women storytellers. Um, so maybe tell me a little bit more of that experience. How is that for you? Um, it has been one of the most amazing things in my life.

Like when I first started speaking, I never, ever, ever imagined that there would be a day that I would also teach the craft of speaking. Mm-hmm. And it is a craft, right? Like, and, um, one of the things that I had learned through my training, I did through women speak was that there are. There are ways that our brains process information and it's [00:25:00] not, this isn't gendered, but I'm just gonna use the language 'cause it makes sense, right?

There's a masculine, masculine thinking. Mm-hmm. And feminine thinking. Mm-hmm. Masculine thinking is very linear. It's, there's a point A, there's a point B, there's a point C. Yes. You tell a story, there's a beginning, middle end, right? And then there's feminine, circular thinking, which kind of has the narrative that weaves off.

It has all of the, you know, the sidebars and the tangents and all of the things, but you do eventually get to the end, right? Mm-hmm. You do tell the full story. You just might have a few little micro adventures in it. Yes. On the way, right? Yes. And that both of those are very natural ways to speak. Um, it's just has a, it has to do with the way that your brain identifies and processes information.

And so I think of it more as like a neurotypical versus a neurodivergent brain. Mm-hmm. Um, it's not necessarily like gendered, um mm-hmm. But all of our systems that we have have been designed on this [00:26:00] masculine way of thinking and this linear model. Right. And so. Um, most of the ways that we've been taught how to speak, have everything to do with like, I'm gonna give you my five point presentation.

I'm going to give you my intro and my supporting paragraph and my conclusion, and here's the bullet points and all of that, those things. And for me, that never really fit because that's not how my brain. I am that storyteller. Mm-hmm. I wanna bring you the information in a way that is easy for you to digest, especially if I'm talking about complex concepts.

Mm-hmm. Um, and so learning how to do the more feminine like rooted. Intuitive speaking has been really, really cool because specifically with women, um, we, we are really good with our intuitions. Like we know what needs to be said. Mm-hmm. We feel things in our bodies before they ever come off of our [00:27:00] lips.

And so it's really just learning how to listen to that and channel that and guide that into, um, spoken words. And so, um, I've really enjoyed working with women because there's been so many that they're like, I don't really have anything that important to say. Mm-hmm. And then we get into this place of really mining their wisdom and we're like.

There's something here. Mm-hmm. And the beautiful things that come from that and the ways that you can, um, really, uh, like, I like to think of myself as somebody who is like, I'm helping you to mine for those diamonds. It's not necessarily like I know that they're there. Mm-hmm. Um, it's not that we're just on this random fishing expedition.

Um, it's. It's, we know that there's something there. We're going to, we're going to capture it, we're going to polish it, we're gonna make it shine. Mm-hmm. And it's going to be unique and beautiful in its own way. It's [00:28:00] not gonna be some kind of cookie cutter of five step process. Yeah, totally. That you just like fill in the blanks.

Right? Yeah. Yeah. I really appreciate that. Um, it's like. I really resonate with when you said, you know, people sometimes will say, I don't know what to talk about, or, I don't know if I have anything valuable to share. Almost like a like 10 out of the 10 times they do. Mm-hmm. And 'cause that happens quite a bit when I invite people to come to the podcast.

I'll be like, do you wanna come to the podcast? I thought you have a really cool story. And sometimes you'll say like, I don't know what to talk about, like. It's not that interesting. I'm like, what are you talking about? Like, I find it very interesting. Yes. And I mean a lot of folks, like you said, you need to find that gem.

You need to [00:29:00] find that diamond. Yeah. Um, and then I feel from my perspective, I am an interviewer. It is my job to bring that gym out of people. Yes. And. I imagine as a coach, that's also your job to bring that. Mm-hmm. Well, and do you find, because this is something I'm curious about, that people seem to think that they're not that interesting because they're inside their own heads all the time.

Like, like I, I wonder how many people. Yeah, discount. How truly special what they have to say and contribute to the world is. Hmm. Because to them it's normal. Do you love, she's just doing her thing. We, okay, so our listeners won't see this, but we have a cat enter the chat and it's so beautiful. It's so lovely, [00:30:00] and she is just decided to crawl up on my shoulders.

Um, and so now I have, it's almost looks like I have a little fur wrap on me. Yeah. Wow. What a treasure. Um, but like, um, I got, because like I, I don't know if I'm articulating this well enough, but I just feel like. The number of people that have said that they don't think that they're very interesting. And then I actually start talking to them.

I'm like, are you kidding me? Everything you're saying is very fascinating to me. Tell me more. Exactly, exactly. I think, well, everyone's different and um, so I feel it has a lot to do with like nature and nurture. That's my, um, I feel like growing up in China, just my own case. Oftentimes we say something like, you don't want to stand out too much 'cause you don't want to draw a lot of attention to [00:31:00] yourself.

Mm-hmm. Like, that's how I was brought up. As a, as a girl, I guess. Um, they always say, you know, you want to be good, but not too good. Mm-hmm. Uh, like, I don't know. That reminds me of the, uh, monologue in Barbie, the movie. Right. Like the mom, she had a, um, right. Like, yeah. You wanna be great, but not too great.

You want to be thin, but not too thin, but you wanna be brilliant, but not too brilliant. So I feel like over time, at least for me, I was just like, you wanna be good enough, but you don't wanna be too good because if you are too good, then you draw so much attention and people don't like. Like, the world doesn't like someone who draws too much attention.

So over time, I [00:32:00] feel, of course, that's just me. I don't know what it is for other people, but I feel like over time we kind of like bought into the idea, uh, I'm okay. I'm not that special. Uh mm-hmm I'm good enough. But you know, I'm not, I don't know, something that's kind of like. In my maybe early thirties, maybe that's late, but it's never too late to learn something about ourselves is, uh, I learned that I'm actually, I mean, I don't wanna sound like kind of, you know, say it, say it.

You know, I, I learned that I'm pretty special, like in my early thirties. You are, you are pretty special. And And we all are. That's the thing. Yeah. Yeah. We all are in our own ways and I feel like once we recognize that, that gives us the permission to have those audacious dreams. Right? Like [00:33:00] there was, I don't know how many times in the last six months that I was walking through some city that I'd never been to before, looking at whatever it was I was looking at and being like, I cannot believe this is my real life.

Like, what the heck? And then I remembered. Seven years ago, like, no, 10 years ago, it was 2016, it was January, 2016. I wrote down in the front of my planner like, this is the life that I wanted for myself. Oh wow. That was my big audacious dream back in 2016, and it was just like, oh my gosh. That is possible because I wanted it to be possible and I've done the things that I needed to do to make that possible, including figuring out how to make my work fully remote so that I could travel and work from wherever.

And that's not always easy. No, it's not. It's actually really hard. No. But, um, that's beautiful. I mean, I, I think this, at this point, a couple years ago I interviewed a, a, a guest on the [00:34:00] podcast. What she said is, I hope we all have the audacity to dream. Yes. And that's exactly what you just said too, is, you know, having all these audacious dreams and, you know, I think about that guest and, and she was at a very different place, um, uh, in the context of the conversation we are having, um.

But I really remember that's what she said to me is, I hope we all have the audacity to dream. And I really loved it. And I just feel like, you know, you just said the audacious dreams. It's just so wonderful to hear that. Yeah, absolutely. Well, and so one of the, um, one of the people that I met on my journeys, he is an American, uh, married to a French woman and they live in France, and I was there taking care of their horses and donkey chickens over the Christmas.

Oh. And [00:35:00] he said something to me because I was talking about how surprising everybody. Was being about my trip. Like I was getting all kinds of mixed responses. Some of them were like, oh, I wish I could do something like you're doing. And I'm like, you can, you can, um, like, do you really wish that? Or like, are you, are these just empty platitudes?

And he said to me, he said. You know, I've learned over my many years, and this guy's probably my dad's age, I think he's probably almost 70. Mm-hmm. And so I said I've learned over my many years that, um, there's a difference between dreaming and fantasizing. Mm-hmm. Dreaming has acted behind it. Yes. And I was like, yep.

That, that, that is my takeaway for this entire thing, is it's like we can always dream, but it's, it's not a dream. If you don't put action towards making it come true. Yes. And I was like, Ooh, I [00:36:00] like that. No, I love that. That's so powerful. Um, I cannot agree more. Um. I will say, yes, we are, everyone has a, a path of a certain path and uh, sometimes we have, you know, some power over it, sometimes we don't.

But it is true. It's like if we can dream and put action towards it, chances are we may just make it. Um, but if it's just wishful thinking, like you said, if you are just fantasizing it and if you don't do anything like then at best is some kind of. Empty manifestation. Um. Mm-hmm. But even manifestation requires actions to it.

Like you can't just It does. Yeah. So I totally agree. Um, I remember we were back home during NARAL year, uh, this year, and we visited like a local [00:37:00] store, and this auntie, she was like. She was very, she just asked me some random questions and from those questions she learned that I live in the US and she was very like, that is so hard.

Like she was genuinely, she was, that is so hard. And I was like, uh, I guess it is, but then it's not, um. And I think about that auntie. 'cause she was very nice and she, she genuinely just felt like this is so hard to do. Mm-hmm. And I don't disagree with her. And I also feel, you know, if we work towards something and combine that dream and our actions, I mean, it's not a guarantee.

Again, I'm not kind of like romanticize, I don't want to romanticize right. Things and how li how difficult life can be as [00:38:00] someone who lives in a different country and like you are right in Europe and of course you sometimes get sick and have to navigate all the challenges. So I don't wanna say this is like.

Just go do it. You'll be fine. Oh, it's not easy. I agree with her that it's not easy, but it feels like it's a worthy challenge. Mm-hmm. Um, and I think the biggest thing that I've learned about myself, 'cause that's always the question that people ask, is like, what are you learning about yourself? And it's like, I can figure out anything.

Yeah. That's the thing that I've learned is 'cause I've found myself in some. Not less than desirable situations over my travels. Mm-hmm. And I've still figured it out. Right? Like I've been able to get everything I needed. It might not have looked exactly like I thought it would. Yeah. Um, it might have been a lot scrappier.

But like I have been able to [00:39:00] figure it out and I have survived 100% of the situations that I have been in. Mm, no, I totally agree. I think as a fellow traveler, I also have been in situations where I was like, oh God. But we can figure it out. Uh, I think, yeah, like we as humans, we, we can figure it out. I mean, we've made it so far.

Yeah. Well and like the language, 'cause people always ask me about the language barriers, right? And it's like, well, here's the thing. First and foremost, English is predominantly spoken in a lot of places in the world. Mm-hmm. Um, so. Even if you don't speak the language, chances that you'll find somebody that speaks enough English to get by is good.

Mm-hmm. Um, is high. Mm-hmm. But like, there was a night that I was in, I was in Strasburg, France, and both of the nights I went out for dinner. I ended up in places where the people that were. Working. Didn't speak any English. Mm-hmm. Still ate [00:40:00] dinner. I still got my food. They still got paid? Yeah. Like we still did the transaction just fine.

Although I will say that the second night. I don't know exactly what I was ordering. And when I got back to the hotel and I opened it up, I was like, I have no idea what this is. It's all right. I probably wouldn't order it again. Right. But like, you know, I, I didn't serve that night though, so like, and then I also bought, like, it was so funny, I bought this bag of Doritos because I thought that they were like some special kind of like French cheese flavor.

And one of the things that I love to do when I travel is get. Chips because there's always a variety of flavors of either potato chip or corn chips. Yep. And so I'm like, oh my gosh, I got these fancy Doritos and I open them up, and they were literally just plain corn chips, which I've never seen plain Doritos.

Oh, in the us That's true. You should have bought some dipping. I guess. I was [00:41:00] like, Hmm. And so like, then I texted pictures to my friends. I'm like, what flavor do you think these chips are? Because I had to know if it was just me. That was like, okay. So sometimes you end up with these random surprises that aren't exactly like the best.

Mm-hmm. It's still an experience. It's something different. You put yourself out of your comfort zone. I mean, that's part of the adventure, right? Like that's the unknown. I think the unknown part is always like, you never know a hundred percent, but you are still willing to do it. I think that's the beauty of travel as well.

Like it's not, it's an adventure. Like there's always adventure in it. Yes. And what great stories come from wonderful adventures. Right, right. Exactly. Like what, what is that saying? Like there's no, there's no great story ever started with eating a salad or something like that. No. Although that, I disagree with that.

'cause I've had some amazing salads. Um, but like. You think about it and it's like some of [00:42:00] the best stories that you walk away from with your travels are the ones where things didn't go well. Mm. That things didn't go according to plan, where you're like, oh, I totally just ended up like, I think about how I ended up in this like random little town in Germany.

Mm-hmm. Because I thought that I booked a hotel in Basel, Switzerland. Oh. And Okay. When I put it pulled, I got to the train station in Basel and I pulled up the directions to this place and I was like, Germany. Oh no. Oh no. And it was like literally just across the border. It was like 20 minutes away, but I was just like, oh.

I didn't even think to notice what I was booking. Wow. I just saw that it was close and I was like, oh, that's in the right price. Boop. It ended up being a really lovely place. Nice. Um, but it was just like, oh, well now I'm in Germany, and that wasn't part of the plan. Okay. Cool. I guess we're going to Germany.

Guess we're in Germany now. No, that I've, I mean, all [00:43:00] kinds of travel stories. Now you remind me of another time. I feel I, we thought we were gonna get abducted and didn't. Ooh. But, uh, it was also kind of just like a map issue. 'cause the place that showed up on the map indicates middle of nowhere, but the destination actually wasn't middle of nowhere.

So we kind of like scared ourselves. Basically. We thought we were gonna get sent to like a, I don't know, it, it just, it just looked very suspicious on the map. But in the end it was fine. Yeah, so just a note to those map developers, please do a better job. For real. Oh my gosh. The number of times that I've been, oh, it was when we were in Hong Kong, Google Maps did us so dirty and like I've gotten to use City Mapper two, and that one's, that one's not much better, but it was like.[00:44:00]

It kept trying to have us cross this like eight lane freeway. I'm like, there's no walkway here. Like we can't, like this is not a pedestrian walkway. We can't cross here Google. I, I know that I need to be on that side of the road, but can you like take me to the place where I can cross that road? No, but, and that's the thing about Hong Kong is Hong Kong is actually very tricky.

Yeah. It's very hard to cross the streets. It's always busy. There's always a detour of some sort. Yeah, I get it. Hong Kong is challenging for sure. Yeah, I learned that one the hard way. Well, you didn't get round over in the 15 hours I was there. I learned that one the hard way twice. Oh no. Yeah. And yeah, but I, I do, I do enjoy Hong Kong.

Hong Kong is a very fascinating place. Yeah. I wanna go back. I. Yeah, well next time, maybe longer than 15 hours. Yeah, that one we went [00:45:00] because my friend had a layover. We were on our way to Thailand and so she had a layover and um, I am like the queen of the layover. Like, let's make the most of this time.

If it's more than eight hours, we can get something done. Right. Wow. And we could experience some of this city, get a flavor for it. See if we wanna come back. Mm. And so I met her in Hong Kong for a 15 hour layover. And we did, I think we did very well. I think we saw some, some good things. Um, I'm, we got one of the Google map Arabs was, we were trying to get to this one dim sum place, which apparently is like in the basement by the subway.

Not actually, I wanna go. Where it told us, and it was like, by the time we finally figured this out, we had been walking around for like two hours trying to find this place. And then, um, and then I was like, oh, here it is. I know where it is. And then I saw cash only and I was like, no, we're not. No, no, no. And so we, we got our dumb sum at the airport, which was just fine.

Yeah. So, but it [00:46:00] was just, uh, it was quite the adventure. Yeah. No, I mean, if you end up there again, make sure you have cash. I'll lessons learned. Well, I put all my cash on my octopus card 'cause I was told That's what, so, yeah. Wait, so they didn't take octopus? No cash only. Wow. Okay. So for listeners, uh, octopus is pretty much like your payment device or the app you use in Hong Kong and it works in all the subway.

Most of the stores seven elevens just use your octopus and restaurants. And if you don't have octopus in Hong Kong, it can be very challenging to get around. But I'm surprised that things someplace didn't take octopus. Yeah. I'll have to send you the place. Yeah, I'm pretty sure I saved it, but that's pretty funny.

It, it was com I mean, it was comical by the time we realized that it was just, 'cause it didn't, it didn't recognize that like we needed to go down, like down below ground and all this other stuff. [00:47:00] And so I was looking at the photos that people had posted on Google Maps. I'm like, I'm not seeing that sign.

This place is brand new. Like it just opened not too long ago. So like, these have to be current. It's not like this was like five years ago. Hmm. So it was, yeah, no, I'm very intrigued. Maybe we should go back. I know. That's my reason. That'll be my reason to go back. Um, well, we've talked about travel for 45 minutes at this moment and at this point, and also talked about how has storytelling.

Shaped your kind of life, not only as a, as a coach, but also as a person. Um, so if we are going to leave our listeners some kind of like. Take away or like some advice because I know not everyone is a traveler. Mm-hmm. I know that. I just know. I know that from my family, from my [00:48:00] circle, et cetera. If we can encourage people to get out of their comfort zone and travel if they can, if they have those resources and capacity, what would be like your encouragement for people to get out more?

Well, my encouragement would be that you don't have to go that far to travel. Mm, true. Um, and maybe this is part of me having grown up 40 minutes from the Grand Canyon, and so tourism has always been a major part of my life. Um, but there are so many undiscovered gems in the places that we live, even if you've grown up there.

Sure. Um, that you can go explore. And so it's like, Hey, just take a different path. The next time you go out and see what stories find you, because it's, sometimes it's just a matter of getting out of our routine and looking up and looking around and like paying attention, using those [00:49:00] five senses, like what is happening around you and how can you absorb it?

And then the storytelling piece comes into like, how would I describe what I've just experienced to somebody who's not with me right now? Hmm. Mm. That's what makes really great storytelling. I love that. That's such a great, it's, it's such a great advice. Um, I grew up in a touristy town too, and every time I go back to visit, I find something new.

It's true, Uhhuh. Yeah. And the new story and new experience and new learning. So thank you for that. That's very powerful. So folks, if, if you feel like you have seen everything in your city or your town or your village, um, just go out and explore again and find something new. Yeah. Um, and how do people find you and your amazing work in coaching?

Um, they can find me either on Instagram [00:50:00] at eunice brownley or on my website, eunice brownley.com. Hmm. Thank you very much. And when you come back to the US maybe we should talk again and just unpack your journey. Yeah, that sounds great. When are you coming back? Um, I come back to the US on Thursday. Okay.

Um, I'll be in New England for a couple of months. Nice. And um, because this is how my life goes. I may be popping off to London for a little bit to visit my friend that lives there. Wait, when you say New England, you, wait, hold on. That's the us that's not London. New England is the US but Okay. I might be going to Old England too.

Oh, like af. So that just happened today. We were talking about me visiting her. Aw. So in a couple months. Okay. So you are gonna be in New England for a couple months and then after that you'll be in Old England a couple months maybe. Maybe. No, it's, yeah, just [00:51:00] we will see, I mean this is the part of my, my so-called travel life, right?

Mm-hmm. Is that I get to, um, I get to kind of decide where, where I wanna go. Like sometimes I have things that are anchoring me to specific places and dates and sometimes I don't. And that gives me a little bit of flexibility to be a little bit spontaneous. Yeah. I love that. I love that so much. And, um, I'm sure we will talk again and talk about your adventures.

Absolutely. I would love that. Yeah. Thank you so much. And I thank you. How many hours you are ahead of me? Uh, you are, is this 6:00 PM 7:00 PM Let's see. It's seven hours ahead. Seven hours ahead. So it's almost your dinner time? Yeah, it's 6:00 PM Yep. Okay. Well I hope you enjoy your dinner in Porto and I will go get some breakfast.

Sounds good. Thank you so much, Joe. Yeah, thank you. We'll talk soon. Alright, bye-bye. I will, uh, hold on. Stop recording here, [00:52:00] John.