Introducing From the Roundabout!

Transcript:
Dee: Hello.

Zhou: Hello. Here we go. This is our first podcast episode. And today is August 28th, 2022.

Dee: Oh, thanks. For the reminder. We should probably talk about who we are. Who are you?

Zhou: Good question. My name is Zhou Fang. In Chinese, you will be Fang Zhou. My pronoun She/Her. I am a co-host of this brand new podcast, Hello from the Roundabout. And like we mentioned, today's our first episode.

Dee: You know, I never asked you what the tones are on your Chinese name.

Zhou: Fang, Zhou. So, flat.

Dee: They're both first tone?

Zhou: Yes, they're both first tone. Yeah, good question.

Dee: And actually, I never asked what it means either.

Zhou: Fang square and just. Zhou means small boat.

Dee: So, a just boat? It's a square boat?

Zhou: It's very strange because my family is not religious, but in Chinese it actually means “ark”.

Dee: Oh.

Zhou: Somehow it's biblical.

Dee: Oh. Have you talked to them about that?

Zhou: They are just lazy. Like Fang Zhou is easy. And it is gender neutral. So whatever I turn out to be, that's my name. Yeah. And in Chinese, it's easy to write because a lot of characters are complicated, but mine is super simple. Like even if she's Super dumb. She can write her name.

Dee: Oh, my God. Setting the bar pretty low.

Zhou: It's a very low bar.

Dee: Wow.

Zhou: Cool. Moving to you.

Dee: Yeah. So my name is Dee also Diyana or D”ii”ana. Most people call me Dee these days and my pronouns are she/her. and I identify as mixed race Filipino-American and yeah. Also co-hosting this lovely new podcast.

Zhou: You didn't say your last name.

Dee: Oh, okay. My last name is Mendoza, dash, Price.

Zhou: and why is that?

Dee: Well, it's sort of a long story. Should we get into it right now or?

Zhou: Up. To You? I mean, I'm curious.

Dee: Mendoza is my mom's maiden name and Price is my dad's surname. And I actually changed it because originally I was just Diyana Price and then I decided to legally change it to incorporate my mother's side in order to honor both sides of my heritage and acknowledge the fact that I actually identify more strongly with the Filipino side of my family. So putting Mendoza in my name made my name feel more aligned with who I am.

Dee: So that's the Story of my name.

Zhou: That makes a lot of sense. Now I'm thinking about my mom's maiden name. It’s Interesting because it's “DI”, DAI.

Dee: Oh, really?

Zhou: So it's like your name.

Zhou: So that's who we are.

Dee: Yeah. So we just talked about our names. So let's talk about the name of our show.

Zhou: Yes.

Dee: And why we chose to talk about roundabouts or this new sort of framing for roundabouts that we're using for our show. So basically the main emphasis of our show is around identity, right? Because we both care about identity and think about it a lot. Right. And you do work around identity, right, Zhou?

Zhou: I do, yes. At least that's part of my work at the very minimum is to respect others' identities and also kind of like trying to appreciate everyone's intersections in their identities that kind of like in everyone's day to day life and their work and how they carry themselves and ourselves into the world. So I think so basically the combination of identities and the way we intersect in our own communities and with each other.

Dee: And so we were trying to think of ways that we could more simply represent this intersectionality that happens for our identities. And we're thinking about… what I was thinking about here in Portland. There are all these roundabouts that you encounter as you are navigating streets. And I was like, Well, that sort of feels like a visual for identity. If you think of the “roundabout” in the middle as you, right, and then all the roads that branch off from this roundabout as aspects of your identity and maybe these roads, they don't stay the same, right? Like some roads might get wider for you at certain phases of your life. If that part of your identity is playing more of a role, some roads might disappear. New roads might appear. For me, having just gotten divorced, I'd say I have this new road now in my identity as like a divorcee. Right? And I don't really know what that means for me, but it's something that I'm thinking about. So yeah, we wanted to sort of play off this representation of identity as a roundabout, and hopefully we can have people on our show as guests and talk about their roundabouts, like essentially imagining ourselves standing on this roundabout with another person and saying, “Okay, from this perspective of YOU, let's talk about the different roads that are informing your roundabout, your identity right now. Right now.” So, yeah, I think that's one way to summarize the hello from the roundabout name that we're going with.

Zhou: Yeah, I think so. So Dee is the creator of the name of our podcast. So I think you already kind of like some pretty good like really good explanation. Of Where is this from and why we pick this name. And so. so we just hope that going forward when we have our guests, we'll be able to discuss folks roundabouts as well and how people get there. And of course, things change. And what we talk about is how people identify at the moment based on their experience and their personal journey. So I just would like to kind of mention we try to be present and this is the roundabout where we are right now.

Dee: Yeah. So should we talk about our own roundabouts a little bit?

Zhou: Let's do that. Do you want to kick off?

Dee: Well, I think I'll kick off with a question for you. And we can go from there. So right now, what are some of we're standing on your roundabout right now, right. We're looking out at the roads. What are some of the biggest roads to your roundabout right now? What's playing front and center for you in terms of identity?

Zhou: I think for me, like the biggest roundabout for me here, like this moment, is as a practitioner practicing equity, diversity and inclusion. That has been my day to day practice. I do have a business called Intersectional Group. And it has been a really interesting and sometimes overwhelming journey so far.

Dee: Getting it started.

Zhou: Getting it started. And for me, you know, I imagined myself being hit the ground and running and starting. I would start just like working with teams and organizations right away. And I kind of underestimated the challenges I would encounter when it comes to business development, which is something I had been doing for the last, I don't know, eight, nine, ten years. And I know it's hard, but in my mind somehow I thought, okay, I start a practice and here we go. And I kind of like just somehow minimized the difficulty of that. So I think right now my roundabout is really trying to appreciate all the work that's put into running a practice as a practitioner and giving myself some credit for getting to where I am, because it's only been six months of my practice and I just criticize myself a lot.

Dee: Is it like imposter syndrome type stuff or just feeling like there's so much to do when you're not able to get it all done? Like, what's the critique really centering on?

Zhou: I think the the Critique Is More about like I feel like I have so much to offer and I'm not able to get that out right now. So it kind of is the opposite of imposter imposter syndrome, which, which, which we can talk about for sure. I feel like sometimes I just feel kind of like upset. Why not more people picking up the concept or the framework of intersectionality and really use that to do good. So I think that's what I struggle with right now and I think that's part of my identity is to be, I just have such high expectations and being a practitioner kind of like. It's kind of like a reality Check For me because I also have to consider it. I mean, it is a business, so I have to be realistic about things as well. So to me, that's a day to day practice. I just have to practice mindfulness as well as gratitude on top of that. So that's my roundabout right now.

Dee: Like just the Career stuff. Or is there anything else that you'd say Is Presenting as A Significant road in your roundabout?

Zhou: Yeah, I think another thing is because we are still Like outside of Work, we are still like a person living in our community and society. And every time I step out of my house, I'm a Neighbor. Right? Like I'm a neighbor in my neighborhood. I interact with my neighbors, my friends, and sometimes that's a little hard to switch. Actually, I noticed recently is that I just carry myself as a as a practitioner, and sometimes I forget how refreshing it can be to just be a neighbor and just have a chit chat with your, you know, your other dog parents or, you know, your friends in the neighborhood who are on their way to pick up their children or just to running errands, etc.. Like, sometimes I forget the moment I step out of my home office and I'm someone else in other people's eyes. So I think that's another important kind of road for my roundabout, is to be able to still appreciate the simplicity of day to day life is to take a walk, have a little chit chat, you know, things like that.

Dee: I like that.

Zhou: So that's another part of my identity right now is how to be a good neighbor.

Dee: It sounds cheesy, but it's true.

Zhou: It's really hard. It's really hard.

Dee: Especially in a place like Portland, where neighbors expect you to respond like smile and talk and as opposed to other cities where when you are interacting with people you don't know that well, there isn't necessarily that expectation.

Zhou: Yeah, I Think the cynical side of me is like, what do you want? Like I'm just.

Dee: I should mention that neither of us is from Portland, so.

Zhou: Yes.

Dee: Yes. Our perspective.

Zhou: Yes, exactly. So but I'm trying to do better. I'm trying to change that. I'm trying to be a good neighbor. My neighbor put their home grown flowers out of my door. I know who that was, is because I have a camera and now I feel like I have to repay.

Zhou: You have to bring them flowers.

Dee: Bring back flowers?

Zhou: can we swear at this show?

Dee: Yeah, yeah, you can swear it.

Zhou: Say, what the Fuck am I going to do? Just to give back that appreciation.

Dee: So it sounds like gift giving is not like a natural love language for you?

Zhou: No, no. I think I like to do like I do letters. I cook food for people. And also I don't grow flowers.

Dee: So. Well, then you could, I guess, cook something for.

Zhou: I cook. I'll probably make some cookies. I'll probably do a cake or whatever.

Dee: That sounds tasty.

Zhou: I know it is tasty.

Dee: But why do you think they left flowers for you? I mean, this is like the non Portland or me coming out maybe like thinking there must be some sort of ulterior motive for leaving flowers on your front step. Was it a flirtation thing or.

Zhou: No, just being nice.

Dee: I think just being nice. It’s Like foreign to me.

Zhou: Just generally being nice and and just I don't know, I don't I don't I don't really know. I think it's just like good neighbor thing to do.

Dee: Do they leave flowers on other people's doorsteps, too, or was it just yours?

Zhou: I have no idea. I have no idea. They have a large garden, like. Like maybe too many flowers. Everyone can enjoy a little bit of this beauty, you know, I don't entirely know, but I'd like to think it's just, you know, neighbors being nice neighbors. And for me, in return, I have to bake something and I'm like, The fuck am I going to do?

Zhou: So that's me right now. How about you? What are the bigger roads for your identity right now DEE?

Dee: I think there's a lot going on. I think from my roundabout recently, some of the bigger roads have been around. My sexual orientation and really sort of gaining more confidence around how I identify and operate in that realm. And then also career like you were talking about youe roundabout, it's also pretty present for me to having recently pivoted into my first software engineering role after doing a boot camp. And so I am still settling into some Comfort With identifying As a Software engineer and really feeling confident with that identity. And like I mentioned, there's this new road now in this identity as like a divorcee. And then I think like today, the most present identity for me has been around my age and getting I'm 38 and having aging parents and the issues that have or challenges that have come up with that. And if you're hearing growling, that is my dog WiFi and oh yeah. So there's also the road as a dog mom. We are both dog moms, so we have that in common. And yeah, and the aging thing has been interesting to as I am now back on the market, so to speak, after my divorce and dating and suddenly realizing that I'm probably getting filtered out on dating apps because I'm 38 and I remember being that person that in my twenties that was like, I don't want to date someone over 35, which now like, wow, that's horrible. Why was I like that? Why was I so exclusive and judgmental? So, You know, hindsight's 20/20 but that those are just that was like, wow, I just sort of vomited a lot about my roads..

Zhou: I have questions. Okay. What's wrong about Filtering out ages? I don't know. I feel like. Okay, so. What Was your age range and what is your age range now?

Dee: So I think in my twenties when I was on the dating apps, I was looking for people. I was like, Oh, I kind of want to date people within the Same. Like within a certain proximity to my age, right? So like I'll say if I was 25 and I was looking for like 24 to 35 year olds, I was like, let me give myself like a decade ish range to Look within, right? Because like maybe if we are too far apart in age, then we're at different life phases. So maybe we won't quite want the same things. Right? Right. So I mean, that feels like a reasonable thing. But then if you get down to the nitty gritty of like actually choosing the age cutoff, that's arbitrary, right? Because everyone moves into different life phases at different points. It's not like everyone is suddenly after 35 in a different life phase. So.

Zhou: Right, right. Although mentally, I don't know, I'm more thinking about maturity like yeah, that, that is a very blurry line. Like it's hard to tell, like when are we becoming mature and kind of like being able to communicate.

Dee: Yeah. Yeah. So like to you, what doess maturity mean? Because I feel like that's also sort of subjective.

Zhou: Yeah, that is subjective. Like actually I don't know right now. I used to think that I was pretty mature, but right now I don't really know because I feel like I encounter my immaturity every day. You know, when I consider things and trying to be a good person and I kind of catch myself just being immature. So I don't know. I don't know. I guess like when I, you know, trying to date people I consider are they being thoughtful or they are they smart or things like that? I don't really I can't really tell if someone is immature these days, although I think in the past I definitely consider that as like a related to age thing. But that's not necessarily true anymore.

Dee: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I agree with that. I feel like actually I was talking with some folks about this recently. They were saying it's less about your age and more about your mileage. So yeah, your mileage. So like how much you have experienced or especially how much like adversity you have to face. you could be like a 20 something, could have faced a lot more adversity or trauma or whatnot, whatnot, then like a 40 year old. And but just by nature of having to have had to wade through so much more, they might have a greater emotional maturity or greater self awareness than the 40 year old. So yeah, I think that's what they meant by mileage.

Zhou: I like that. I really like that and I think there is some beauty in it. It's just to see like even as a car, you know. No, I appreciate that perspective a lot.

Dee: Do you feel. Like you have a lot of Mileage?

Zhou: I don't know. I think I do. Just because of the things I went through in recent years. At the same time, I feel like I think everything is relative. I think compared to certain people, I definitely have more mileage. At the same time, I have not seen anything that's like, for example, losing a parent. I have not experienced that, and I know some people have experienced that in recent years and I don't have children. So I will never experience leaving a child or losing a child, which I know like some folks that I feel pretty close to who have lost children recently. So that's the mileage I probably will never have, and I feel pretty fortunate. I don't have to carry that. So I think it's all relative. I think I do have a lot of mileage when it comes to moving to a different country, living as an immigrant, being a woman and having to witness some really ugly things when it comes to being Asian and you and I both and being an immigrant, I mentioned that already. So I have a more mileage in that on the road. I have more mileage on that road, which is interesting. We're talking about roundabouts.

Dee: Yeah. It's sort of goes together, doesn't it?

Zhou: It does go it does. It goes together. But there are so many roads. I have zero mileage.

Zhou: You know, I'm, I am a dog owner and I have a mileage on that, but I never had a cat on my own, so I have zero mileage on that. How about you? What's your mileage map looks?

Dee: My Mileage map. I'd say in terms of my relationship history, there's quite a bit of mileage there. I've experienced a lot of up and downs and have had to grow a lot through those up and downs. And I think recently, like I was talking about having aging parents that has given put some mileage on me as a car.

Zhou: Yep.

Dee: Just thinking about sort of the, the, the stressors that that has introduced to my life and having to think about bigger decisions around around that, trying to think what else, I guess as a mixed race person that has given me some mileage in terms of having to figure out how I identify, having to navigate people, being confused by my phenotype, my appearance. And when you're younger and you're confused about your identity and other people are confused about your identity at the same time, it's sort of puts you in a particular predicament that you have to navigate. So yeah, in terms of like my racial and ethnic identity, there's definitely been some mileage there, which was also complicated by the fact that I didn't even know fully about my heritage until I was a young adult, which we can go into in more depth in another episode.

Zhou: Yeah, and I think this is a good point, like a good place for us to talk about how do we want to do this podcast program? So I guess we can briefly kind of talk about that as well. I think we would like to regularly bring in guests and invite people to share about their identities and their roads to their own roundabouts. And, you know, topics we have been brainstorming are of course, you know. Dee You mentioned you changed career many times, so we can talk about how people pivot or folks who have pivoted when it comes to career change, etc.. So and then of course we are both Asian, so we will talk about our Asian heritage and invite folks who are. People of color as well. And of course our own sexual identities and gender identities, etc.. So those are the things we would like to cover.

Dee: We have a big list.

Zhou: We do. And well, another thing is we want to regularly talk about we kind of touched on dating and which.

Dee: Should we talk about that now?

Zhou: I don't know. It's up To you. I mean it's yeah. We can talk about dating

Dee: Well, there's dating and dogs. Very important Topics. I don't know which one you want to do first.

Zhou: I think those are going to be our one of our, like, anchor. Things that we talk about. Yeah. So, yeah, let's talk about. Dogs first and then we can talk about Dating.

Dee: Okay. So we should just describe what's going on right now in terms of the dogs in our immediate space. Do you want to introduce Henry?

Zhou: Yes. So I have a standard poodle. He's full name Is Henry Fluffy Fang. That's my last name, Fang. But Fang is fitting because he's a dog. His middle name is Fluffy and first name is Henry. And he right now is laying at Dee’s Foot and. Pretending that he's asleep. But actually, he is not. He has Strong personality and very judgmental.

Dee: I always call him a force of nature, because you can't not notice Henry when he comes into your space. I mean, first of all, he's physically quite big.

Zhou: Yes.

Dee: Yes. And then he will make eye contact with you.

Zhou: Too much eye contact.

Dee: Actually, WiFi Does the same thing. But Henry is like, if he stands up on his hind feet, he's taller than you. And yeah, he's.

Zhou: Yep, he's really he's Very attention seeking, very self involved. I think he is one of those when we talk about mileage, he doesn't have a lot of mileage In life because He has no self awareness. And he has I don't he has experienced very little adversary in his life. So all he knows is good. I think that prevents him from being mature.

Dee: I see.

Zhou: He's a child pretty much.

Dee: He does come in always with this optimism. He thinks everybody wants to give him food and love.

Zhou: Yes, which is obviously not true, but he doesn't know that. And I think I will I should give him credit for always thinking everyone is good and keeping trying.

Dee: I think it's a strength at the same time.

Zhou: He's not very useful. Not very useful. But he does love everyone. He expects the same in return and probably by ten times more. But he is he's a good fella. He's a good fella. Let's just say that. And I think he's very fluid. I think he's a strong ally. And we have WiFi.

Dee: Yeah, WiFi is a rescue. I adopted him in May. He is laying down, like, a couple feet away from Henry in his little donut bed. And he is some sort of terrier mix. He's quite small, probably like the size of a football. And his story is that someone had abandoned him and he was living in this abandoned dog house by some train tracks in Fresno. Someone sent me a picture of this dog house. It was quite sad. And then he was captured and brought to a local shelter and then transported through an adoption organization called Agave. They transported him from California to Portland, Oregon, where there is a much larger demand for adoptable dogs. So yeah, I saw him on Petfinder and I said, That's my little dude right there. So I went to pick him up and now he is my little dude. And so yeah, he has some mileage there. He's lived on the streets by himself. He has this adorable meerkat pose that he does whenever he wants something and which Zhou is imitating right now. And I'm pretty sure he learned that when he was begging on the streets for food, because you really can't resist wanting to give him something when he does it. But what else am I missing about wifi? I'd say.

Dee: He's a strong ally, too.

Zhou: Oh, and WiFi is going to come live with me for two days

Dee: Oh, yes, yes. Next weekend he'll be staying. Staying with the Zhou. With the force of nature. Henry over here and Henry, who, you know, true to character, just wants wifi to love him. But wifi true to character, you know, just wants his own space when it comes to other dogs. Wifi only loves humans, by the way, I should say that. But all humans he does not discriminate.

Zhou: Right. And I think that's another thing that we probably will talk about down the road is about boundaries. You know, WiFi is a strong example of setting boundaries. Henry does not understand.

Dee: Yeah, that's very true. I mean, some people say that your dog is like you, but I don't think our dogs are like us in those respects. Right? Right.

Zhou: Agree. Henry is a much worse version of me.

Dee: I mean, I guess wi fi definitely. Like, wi fi has some trauma responses, right? Like, he's a people pleaser. And I am definitely like that, too. And I have trouble saying no, but, you know.

Zhou: You're doing better.

Dee: Yeah, I'm trying better. Yeah.

Zhou: I actually heard something about being able to say no is actually a really good indicator that you trust someone enough to say no. That actually is a good sign for any relationship. You know, when it comes to safety and boundary, when you have the ability to say no to someone means you. Yeah, like you trust them enough in this relationship that you get to set and respect boundaries.

Dee: Yeah, I like that. That framing, that it is about trust. So it's like trusting that they will have a respectful reaction when you do set a boundary.

Zhou: Yeah, exactly. Instead of just wanting to be polite.

Dee: Well, I hope that works out for people.

Zhou: I mean hard in Portland for sure.

Dee: Because everyone's so nice.

Zhou: Or just nice looking.

Dee: Yes, it's on the surface.

Zhou: It's really on the surface.

Zhou: I guess that's actually a really good place for us to switch to talking about dating because.

Dee: Very quickly we only. Have a few minutes. Yeah.

Zhou: Yes, we can just touch on that and then we can Wrap it up.

Dee: Okay. I don't know. I feel like you should go first with a dating update.

Zhou: Yes, my dating update is… It's very dismal. It's not great.
Dee: It's theatrical emphasis there.

Zhou: Yeah, it's, It's not great, man.

Zhou: But I do have a really funny incident happened recently, so I only use Bumble because it's I get to control, etc. and it's just so quiet and I decide whenever I want to use it. And recently I the most dramatic thing ever happened on Bumble for me is that recently I matched with two people who are roommates.

Dee: Oh, how did you know that?

Zhou: They told me.

Dee: What have they been doing? Comparing notes?

Zhou: That's what I said. Yeah, that's what I said.

Zhou: I was like, Oh, shit, I guess I can never make shit up like because you two are comparing notes.

Dee: And I like how that's the first place your head went to, like, Oh, I can't lie. Like, that was like something you were normally going to do.

Zhou: That's literally… that's another thing about dating is you… I am definitely wearing my Facade When it comes to dating.

Dee: Okay. We have to unpack that a little bit more in another episode.

Zhou: Maybe… do not do not even try. But yeah, that's my first reaction is like, fuck, I can't lie. So that's been the most exciting incident in my dating life.

Dee: Are you going on dates with both of these people?

Zhou: So the reason one of them knew that I matched with their roommate is because the roommate told them that they are going on a date with someone and they are like, Show me who that someone is. Oh, that someone is me. And they told me they know that like, by the way, my roommate and my Coworker Matched with you two and then know that you two are going for a drink next week. And I was like, interesting. And eventually I was like, You should come to The drinks, too.

Dee: Oh, my gosh. So no, it's like A two on one. This is like an episode of The Bachelorette.

Zhou: Is it? I never watched It.

Dee: To your credit.

Zhou: Yeah. We need our own dating show, or whatever.

Dee: So we definitely have to follow up on this and see when is this day happening?

Zhou: Next week.

Dee: But they're both coming or not.

Zhou: They supposedly they are both coming. And I was like, why don't we just do this? It saves time.

Dee: So are you going to have like a check in at the end of this date? Like, okay, do either of you vibe with me? Here's how I'm feeling.

Zhou: I could. I could, like, interview. Yeah, I could. Or we all just become friends.

Dee: That will also be fun. I mean, you sound really happy about that prospect.

Zhou: Yeah. Yeah. I think it would be. Fun to be a friend, wouldn't it? Would just be a such a good story.

Dee: It would be a good story, but it would also be an interesting story if you ended up actually dating one of them. Or both of them. Yes, actually, that would be The best Outcome. I guess.

Zhou: That would be really Funny.

Dee: Are you considering a poly orientation at this point?

Zhou: Kind of, but not really. Like for me, I think like I'm a very practical person. I don't know if that's practical for me. Is it Practical? And I have to be so much more thoughtful. If I dated like more than one person at A time. Right. And and I'm open to it, but I just don't know. Like, practically speaking, I don't know if I can do it just as a person right now. Right. But I think it's an Option for It's a lot of effort. And I have to like because I have very high expectations of myself. And if I fuck up, I will be like, damn it, but we'll see. I will let you know.

Zhou: And how about you? I know you keep a spreadsheet. She keeps a spreadsheet of her dates.

Dee: Yeah. You know, I have a love hate relationship with this spreadsheet because sometimes the more dates I go on and the more because I have an outcome column, you know? And the more that I'm putting negative outcomes in the spreadsheet, the more depressing it is. Right. And like whenever I total the number of dates I've been on and yeah, so sometimes I, sometimes I decide I'm going to delete the spreadsheet, but I don't actually delete it. I. It's like pretend it doesn't exist for a little bit. But I let's see, I've been going like on an average of one first date per week for the past several weeks and I just had one yesterday. We went to brunch at Hey Love.

Zhou: I love Hey I love.

Dee: See, I thought, like. I had really high expectations based on the reviews. And I feel like maybe you recommended it at one point. And then I was eating there and I was like. Not good enough. I mean, it's OK. I think I came in with too high expectations. So the drink was good. It was some sort of like ginger tamarind drink that was quite tasty and the tater tots were good.

Zhou: Oh, great.

Dee: Yeah. The shrimp and grits, though, I think a little like heavy handed with certain spices.

Dee: Anyways, I am dwelling on the food because I don't really want to talk about the date too much. But I mean it was, it was good. Like we had a good time, we had a good conversation and yeah, I'm just, I'm just not too sure, you know, how sometimes you go on a first date and it's like kind of hard to suss out whether you want to be friends or whether there's, like, romantic potential with the person or whether you really need to go on multiple dates with this person to really figure that out. And I'm in this phase right now. We're like, I really want there to be this like instant chemistry and connection, and I want it to be exciting. And so that makes me feel like if I don't have that, maybe we don't go on a second date. But. Maybe I should give them more time, right? You know.

Zhou: But do you have one next week?

Dee: A first date? Yeah. No, I don't have one set up next week. I don't know. I have some irons in the fire. Is that the, the saying? I always get the things messed up?

Zhou: No idea. I didn't grow up here.

Dee: Maybe we'll have to look up the analogy of that. So, I don't know. We could see. But I'm also like. Systematically deleting dating apps as I get frustrated with them, which happens quite often. I've moved through her hinge OkCupid. A bumble and coffee meets bagel at this point. So, yeah, we could talk more about that in another episode.

Zhou: Well, I guess that is a pretty good intro For Our programming so far, and I'm sure we'll will be able to reveal more of ourselves.

Dee: Do you want to end the episode? So we're hoping to start this transition… this transition.. tradition! of ending Episodes with, you know, sort of road signs or like, yeah, directions for everyone else On Earth. Things that we wish everyone else would do. And, you know, hopefully like something that's relevant to the conversation that we had. So I think something that I would tell everyone to do relevant to one of our conversations Is On dates. I wish everyone would be willing to just get more transparent about how they're feeling. Like, you know, how I was talking to you, like what's going to happen at the end of the day? Are you going to have a check in? Like, I wish that was Just built In best practice. At the end of each date you have a check in like OK. How do you feel? Do you want to be friends? Should we do another date?

Zhou: I really like that. I mean, I'm going to try to do that. If I'm going to get a drink with those two people, I'll try to say, Hey, how do you feel like it's this, you know. Yeah. So I, I think that's a great road sign. And I think my road sign from these episodes is really encourage us, everyone to practice saying NO. Practice saying no. When, when you feel really strongly that, “no, I cannot do that”. And I think that's yeah, that's the road sign I'm going to give this time. And, and I think there's some similarity in our road signs is be clear.

Dee: Clear. Yeah. It's about communication.

Zhou: Yeah, yeah. Be clear.

Dee: Communicate, proactively.

Zhou: And with that and our dog's dozing.

Dee: We shall sign Off.

Zhou: We'll sign off.

Dee: See you next time.